BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » a question to those who dislike mary

Mattlocked · July 6, 2014 4:29 pm

Exactly. That's what I can not understand or forgive her for it. The best friend of her "beloved" (?) husband.....

SusiGo · July 6, 2014 5:47 pm

She knew better than anyone else what Sherlock's alleged death did to John and yet she at least willingly risked to put him in that situation again. This has nothing to do with love. This is self-preservation (and this is putting it politely).

Bored-to-be-alive · July 6, 2014 7:41 pm

There is just one word when I think of Mary: WRONG!

She hurt Sherlock. She hurt John. Bad.

Last edited by Bored-to-be-alive (July 6, 2014 7:41 pm)

Side of Angels · July 6, 2014 11:05 pm

Agreed. I had no problem with Mary (in fact, I actually liked her very much) until she shot Sherlock. After that, forget it.

saturnR · July 7, 2014 12:54 am

But Amanda is lovely I think she was cast well.

tonnaree · July 7, 2014 3:26 am

saturnR wrote:
But Amanda is lovely I think she was cast well.

I agree. AA is lovely and she was well cast.
However, the character of Mary SHOT SHERLOCK!
I don't like that much.

Sherlock Holmes · July 7, 2014 11:38 am

I'm constantly back and forth with my feelings about Mary. Sometimes I like her and defend her to death amongst other people in the fandom, and then sometimes I'm just like "yeah, I completely agree with you, hate her".

I think she's a GREAT CHARACTER. Fascinating. And for a character to split the fandom in such a way that she has is just a testament to the way she was written and developed over the series by our clever boys.

besleybean · July 7, 2014 4:37 pm

Do you think they meant her to be divisive?

Schmiezi · July 8, 2014 6:50 pm

besleybean wrote:
Do you think they meant her to be divisive?

I do. IMO every thing with Sherlock is written, placed or shot very deliberately. Therefore I doubt that such a huge reaction from the fans happened by accident.

SusiGo · July 8, 2014 7:02 pm

I agree. If they had wanted her to be liked by the whole or large parts of the fandom they would have written her in a different way. All the characters are human and flawed (just look at the discussions about Molly slapping Sherlock) but with Mary it has a different quality.

SolarSystem · July 8, 2014 7:18 pm

And furthermore, it would be an almost disastrous misjudgement on Mofftiss' part if their intention was for the fandom (or large parts of the fandom) to like her. They way they wrote her they must have known what the result would be.
Although I think that Mofftiss would still say that Mary is a strong woman - and I disagree, because in my opinion she is a very, very weak person.

Lue4028 · July 9, 2014 12:59 am

I didn't realize people didn't like Mary because she shot Sherlock. That, for me, is completely forgiven, just like I forgive everything moriarty does. I kind of wanted to make her out to be a villain after that and I'm still hoping for that in season 4, though it's a long shot. It would have been nice if Mary had been a villain because then Sherlock coming back from the death to "save John" would have actually meant something.
I agree the surgery explanation was quite weak, considering that Sherlock did actually die. Mary had very little control over the situation at that point, it wasn't really surgery. It made me loose a some faith in the screenwriting honestly..
I think Mary's introduction was a good thing. Moftiss' goal for season 3 was to take Sherlock and John in a new direction. Mary adds dynamic, tension, conflict etc. There's always the risk of Sherlock and John's relationship being overdone or sold out, if you leave them alone with not enough disruption.

tonnaree · July 9, 2014 2:04 am

Lue4028 wrote:
I didn't realize people didn't like Mary because she shot Sherlock. That, for me, is completely forgiven, just like I forgive everything moriarty does. I kind of wanted to make her out to be a villain after that and I'm still hoping for that in season 4, though it's a long shot. It would have been nice if Mary had been a villain because then Sherlock coming back from the death to "save John" would have actually meant something.
I agree the surgery explanation was quite weak, considering that Sherlock did actually die. Mary had very little control over the situation at that point, it wasn't really surgery. It made me loose a some faith in the screenwriting honestly..
I think Mary's introduction was a good thing. Moftiss' goal for season 3 was to take Sherlock and John in a new direction. Mary adds dynamic, tension, conflict etc. There's always the risk of Sherlock and John's relationship being overdone or sold out, if you leave them alone with not enough disruption.

You forgive everything Moriarty has done? Wrapping old blind ladies in explosives and blowing them up?

Also, Sherlock coming back to life was, imo, one of the most important moments of S3. I think we will find out more of why Mary is dangerous to John.

CarlPowers · July 9, 2014 2:29 am

I agree that Mary is such an amazing character.

I appreciate that she is Canon, and that yes, the boys have to deal with her during the 'John and Mary'
period. But I do believe that above all, she becomes a thing of the past, a footnote in their lives.
Sure she changes things, changes them, but ultimately can't change what they are to each other.

I warmed up to her, much like John did I guess.    But the reason I want her gone has nothing to do with
her shooting Sherlock.   I think of that as just a writer's device to ease us into the idea of
easing her out.    Because that's the story.

Schmiezi · July 9, 2014 7:20 am

I don't hate having Mary on the show. But I don't like to like the character. I love to hate the character for what she did to the boys, for not showing any remorse, for still bossing John around when he forgives her shooting his best friend.

I would have problems with her had she stayed nice Mary. But bad Mary is wonderful to play with in fanfics.

SusiGo · July 9, 2014 7:29 am

Lue4028 wrote:
I think Mary's introduction was a good thing. Moftiss' goal for season 3 was to take Sherlock and John in a new direction. Mary adds dynamic, tension, conflict etc. There's always the risk of Sherlock and John's relationship being overdone or sold out, if you leave them alone with not enough disruption.

Just one thing - I never ever had the feeling that their relationship needed input in the form of Mary. I love HLV but I think they could have told a gripping story without bringing her into it. The reunion and the difficulties preceding the reconciliation would have worked without her being there. IMO there is one important reason why Mary is there - it is canon. And as the writers did not want a docile housewife who is barely mentioned after the wedding they chose to make her very, very different. But if Watson had not married in canon he probably would not have married in the show either.

tobeornot221b · July 9, 2014 6:01 pm

SusiGo wrote:
But if Watson had not married in canon he probably would not have married in the show either.

I agree. But then, these days you don't have to get married when you want to live together as a couple - being accepted by society. That was quite different in ACD's time - just one kiss - and you were engaged to be married. In our modernized SH adaptation however, John and Mary's wedding would have been dispensable.
But I can imagine that the writers knew exactly that a wedding would provide a perfect excuse to show the whole range of emotions the people involved in a marriage are going through - from the proposal to the preparations, the stag night, the best man speech, the dance and the vow. Glad they showed us all this by making an episode about a wedding. They must have had so much fun in exposing Sherlock and John in such an exceptional situation!

SusiGo · July 9, 2014 6:07 pm

True. And they chose to do a very different wedding in which groom and best man get to do the things usually reserved for the bridal couple (as we have discussed in another thread ).

tonnaree · July 9, 2014 7:41 pm

SusiGo wrote:
True. And they chose to do a very different wedding in which groom and best man get to do the things usually reserved for the bridal couple (as we have discussed in another thread ).

Which thread is that Susi? I think I might like it.

Sherlock Holmes · July 10, 2014 12:47 am

tonnaree wrote:
SusiGo wrote:
True. And they chose to do a very different wedding in which groom and best man get to do the things usually reserved for the bridal couple (as we have discussed in another thread ).

Which thread is that Susi? I think I might like it.

Really? Did you guys watch a different episode? The UNCUT Johnlock version or something??