By itself, it isn't necessarily. But when it becomes conventional for sex to be paired with love, and unconventional to love someone without sex, i think it's depressing. It almost like love can't stand alone. Love, if it's extreme, has to be explained by something ulterior, such as sexual feelings or having blood ties, otherwise it isn't justified, it doesn't make logical sense and it can't be understood, believed, or even conceived. That is a limitation- saying that powerful love can only happen in those situations. I also think it's a testiment to love, when you portray it in unconventional situations and show it can defy social norms. It gives it contrast, it doesn't muddy it with ulterior or additional motives such as sexual ones.
Sexual love isn't bad, but saying love means sex... it bothers me. If there was evidence that Sherlock and John specifically wanted to have sex with each other, I wouldn't be saying this, but all I see is evidence that they love each other. That's the focus and backbone of the show. Their love is the point of contention- not the fact that John licked his lips this one time or that he looked weirdly at Sherlock while he was wearing bedsheets. And evidence they love each other being made into evidence they want to have sex- that's what I take issue with. 

Last edited by Lue4028 (June 28, 2014 7:29 am)

I don't think anybody would disagree with that.
But that's different from saying: because you see 2 men who love each other you think/hope there is/will be a sexual relationship.
Oh and while we're on the subject On a related topic, I still find it laughable that people can still equate Johnlock with:  the love of the mother and child, that between siblings etc....if it isn't this, what is it?

Last edited by besleybean (June 28, 2014 7:39 am)

That's just it.
It's as though love isn't enough...
But it is, we need no more, for it to be real.
It's as though sex is the pinnacle, well it isn't.
Our other loving relationships are just as important as any sexual one.
We don't love our childern, parents, siblings any less...and Sherlock and John's relationship falls into this category.

Uh... confused. I thought you said it was laughable to compare John and Sherlock's relationship to mother and child relationships or sibling relationships. 
I don't think J and S are comparable to familial relationships either. Those are in part biologically driven and culturally understood. If sherlock and John were brothers, it would change... everything. It wouldn't be so novel or remarkable, but their love would still be there. They like each other for who they are, but as brothers, they might also like each other because they grew up together, shared similar experiences, have similar traits, or feel responsible for the other. It's pretty different. The fact that John and Sherlock reached out to each other as strangers plays a big role.
I don't know where the mother idea came from... 

Excuse me?
Are we starting that again?
Surely I'm free to say what I like?
I wasn't accusing anybody of anything.
It was a philosophical musing.
You know, a bit like the one referred to on the atheism thread...
And with reference to Oscar Wilde: once is an unfortunate accident, twice looks like carelessness.

Last edited by besleybean (June 28, 2014 9:35 am)

I don't think it would be a terrible idea, I just know it won't happen in BBC Sherlock, from what writers and actors have repeatedly said.

Quite.

Fan Fiction and art are personal things, just for fun.  Everyone is allowed their opinion but no one is forced to read it.   One person's overboard will be just someone else's cup of tea.

Some people say "creepily obsessed" like it's a bad thing. 

Wow, I can't believe I read this entire thread.

Anyway, I found this forum because I was curious as to whether or not I was the only one who saw some UST between Sherlock and John. When I did a Google search on the topic, this thread came up.

My own personal views are more or less going to be a rehash of things already said, but here goes: I know that the show's creators deny anything beyond a bromance, but as a Doctor Who fan, I also know that Moffat lies. I'm not saying that he's defnitely lying here, but I take his words with a grain of salt. I accept that I might be reading too much into things due to the amazing chemistry between Martin and Ben, but there are also those little comments that come up here and there, such as John telling Irene that he's not gay, and Irene responding with, "I am, and look at us both," that make me think maybe we Johnlockers are on to something.

It's not that I want to take Sherlock and John's friendship and turn it sexual, or that I don't think bromance is good enough. I simply think they'd make a cute and interesting romantic couple (sex or no sex), especially considering how much they love and care for each other already. Whether or not I'd actually want to see Johnlock on the show -- I'm torn. On the one hand, shows often seem to lose something when UST is resolved. On the other hand, it would be fun to see them as a couple (and no, I wouldn't need to see any sex or evidence of it). Oh well, I'll just put my faith in the almighty Moftiss to make that decision for the show, and I'll just have to check out the fanfic recommendations for the time being!

Last edited by Side of Angels (July 2, 2014 2:30 am)