See above.

I repeat:
Stating publically, in front of  a cleric-
God is a ludicrous concept...
Pretty darn well atheist to me.
What would you call it?

To me, the "ludicrous concept" in his speech is on the same line as the "plain bridesmaids".

There are always exceptions... there is always an off switch 

besleybean wrote:

I repeat:
Stating publically, in front of  a cleric-
God is a ludicrous concept...
Pretty darn well atheist to me.
What would you call it?

Rude comes to mind.  *shrug*
 

I disagree.
Grammar rules must be different this side of the pond.
I am positive Stephen Fry would agree with me on both counts: as a linguist and as a Sherlockian.
Sherlock isn't prone to philosophical musings, at a wedding or anywhere else.
He was making a statement, in line with his views on marriage.
I agree with him on all counts.

Last edited by besleybean (June 26, 2014 5:41 am)

KeepersPrice wrote:

Well, BB, for once I'm with you. Sherlock tells us a lot about who he is in those few moments of the speech and I think he's being very honest about exactly who and what he is.

We all project our own views onto our favorite characters, of course. Everyone does this. You two are both atheists, so it pleases you to believe that Sherlock is one as well.  I, OTOH, am a person of faith, so I choose to keep a little bit of niggling hope alive, that one day he will become aware that he isn't just transport and a mind palace, that he was given a spirit as well, one that he would do well to nurture, because I believe everyone takes that spirit with them into whatever awaits beyond the grave. But again, that's just my own sensibilities, projecting themselves onto a fictional character I care about. If Sherlock were real, I'd be praying for his soul.  *shrug*

And I still think he was needlessly rude, saying that stuff (at a beautiful wedding, no less!) about people of the clergy, and right in front of someone wearing the collar. As John would remind him, a bit of not good. Except in that case, IMO, it was whoa!lots of not good. His mother would rap his knuckles and remind him to keep a civil tongue in his head.  Even if she agreed with him, lol.  Again, just my own thoughts, projecting themselves onto the fictional characters and story.

Just my two cents, marked down from five, as always.

 

Ariane deVere transcript

SHERLOCK: It is a fact, I believe, that brides tend to favour exceptionally plain bridesmaids for their big day. There is a certain analogy there, I feel.
SHERLOCK (moving on to his next card): ... and contrast is, after all, God’s own plan to enhance the beauty of his creation ...
SHERLOCK: ... or it would be if God were not a ludicrous fantasy designed to provide a career opportunity for the family idiot.
The point I’m trying to make is that I am the most unpleasant, rude, ignorant and all-round obnoxious arsehole that anyone could possibly have the misfortune to meet.
SHERLOCK: I am dismissive of the virtuous ...
SHERLOCK: ... unaware of the beautiful ...
SHERLOCK: ... and uncomprehending in the face of the happy. So if I didn’t understand I was being asked to be best man, it is because I never expected to be anybody’s best friend.

So here he is talking about himself not understanding much of what is important and worthy for other people.

(Sounds all in all rather agnostic to me, if at all.)

Because in S3 he comes to realise that with the relationship to John virtue, beauty and happiness have taken an impact on his own life.
        (No, he is not happy John leaves him, but he realises happiness could indeed be for him.

So when he was against his expectations being asked to be best man, he knows any change of his world view could happen next.

besleybean wrote:

I've pondered the English grammat further today(once I'd woken up!)
Conditional would be: or it would be if...was/were   But ' were it not' is a statement.

Compare and contrast the two ways Sherlock uses the "if" word in what Harriet was kind enough to post:
SHERLOCK: ... or it would be, if God were not a ludicrous fantasy designed to provide a career opportunity for the family idiot.
And later:
SHERLOCK: ... So if I didn’t understand I was being asked to be best man, it is because I never expected to be anybody’s best friend.

In the first, what he said is phrased in a way that is not stating a fact but offering the idea as an unreal (could be true, or it could be false) conditional (could be true, or it could be false) idea,-- God's existence being a reason to give the village idiot a career. This is reinforced by his choice to use "were" as the verb there.

In the second, he uses the "if" word to explain that he did not understand he was being asked to be best man (a fact-- he did not understand), because he never expected to be anyone's best friend. Again, this was reinforced by his choice to use the verb "was".

So "if" can be used to introduce a unreal, conditional clause, if God were not a fantasy, or it can be a synonym for the word when, as though he'd said I didn't understand, WHEN I was asked to be best man.....

IMO, this scene could have been written better, more clearly. I agree with you that, taken at face value, Sherlock is not a believer, and that was probably the writers' intention, to give the viewers that perception about Sherlock. But by having him misuse that tiny word "if", when speaking about the idea that God might be a fantasy, they opened the door a tiny crack, leaving a very small iota of doubt as to what Sherlock really believes or doesn't believe. OTOH, maybe it was written that way on purpose, to keep us guessing, since the writers certainly do like to yank our chains!

besleybean wrote:

And again: why would Sherlock raise the issue in this sertting at all?
He doesn't waste words.  He says what he thinks.

He raised the issue in that setting because he was being a rude you-know-what, as he so often is.  He spied a man of the cloth standing there, ripe for the baiting (a sheep in a clerical collar, if you will). Sherlock had just endured several minutes of actually having to be in a church (you're supposed to be quiet and respectful in church, something Sherlock wouldn't give two figs about) and witness the love of his life marry someone else, all the while with John actually having had the audacity to smile and be happy about it, and so....  yeah, Sherlock raised the issue, he didn't mince words, and I'm sure he thought he was giving everyone listening the benefit of his superior insight.

I never meant to imply that he wastes words or that he doesn't say what he thinks.  But he is often the most unpleasant, rude, ignorant and obnoxious arsehole anyone could have the misfortune to meet, as he himself admitted.