BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)

SolarSystem · June 20, 2014 8:51 am

I woke up this morning with the strangest idea. So, apparently Mary is the way she is because John chose her, right? And since everything is always John's fault and John is attracted to dangerous situations and people who provide them, Sherlock also is the way he is because John... chose... him. John chose him. JOHN CHOSE HIM. You know what I mean...? John chose him. And we all know what that means, right?

SusiGo · June 20, 2014 8:55 am

I see what you mean. Interesting idea because this is one of the sentences I am still struggling with. For me it would be more logical if he had said: "You chose her because she is like that" instead of "She is like that because you chose her." Implying that she was different before and became what she is now because John wants to have her like this. Sorry if this is making no sense.

SolarSystem · June 20, 2014 9:01 am

It makes total sense, and I wasn't even being really serious here. Because I have the same problem with that sentence. In my headcanon Sherlock doesn't really mean it and only says it as part of a game he's playing there with Mary.
But if it were to be taken seriously, then it would also be valid for John and Sherlock. And then in my headcanon they'd have to get married ASAP.

SusiGo · June 20, 2014 9:05 am

Yes.
Yes.

SolarSystem · June 20, 2014 9:07 am

Heeeeere comes the groom, heeeeeere coooomes the grooooom...

SusiGo · June 20, 2014 9:08 am

Now I am getting really nervous. No idea why. Have to stay away from this place or I will get nothing done ...

SolarSystem · June 20, 2014 9:15 am

Don't worry, I really need to go and do some shopping now. Maybe I should buy some cards for wedding invitations...?

SusiGo · June 20, 2014 9:16 am

And some nice waistcoats and tie-pins and white shirts …

SolarSystem · June 20, 2014 9:23 am

...and socks and ties...

SusiGo · June 20, 2014 9:35 am

Flowers for the buttonholes …

SolarSystem · June 20, 2014 10:16 am

...serviettes, waiting for things to just sort of happen...

SusiGo · June 20, 2014 10:17 am

Fresh new bed linen for … oh, that was one deduction I had not expected. Forget it.

Last edited by SusiGo (June 20, 2014 10:18 am)

SolarSystem · June 20, 2014 10:20 am

Forget it...? Definitely not. Carry on. I could do this all day, you know.

A tube of you know what...

SusiGo · June 20, 2014 10:21 am

Oh, no. I. Am. Working.

Mattlocked · June 20, 2014 10:33 am

SusiGo wrote:
I see what you mean. Interesting idea because this is one of the sentences I am still struggling with. For me it would be more logical if he had said: "You chose her because she is like that" instead of "She is like that because you chose her." Implying that she was different before and became what she is now because John wants to have her like this. Sorry if this is making no sense.

Sorry to disturb your phantasies... but to me it means exactly the same, no matter which way he said it.
John: "Why is she like this?"
Sherlock: "Because you chose her."
That doesn't mean to me that she was different before and changed for him. To me it means exactly that John chose her because she is what she is. Just said in a different way.
John could have also asked: "Why did I choose her?" "Because she is what she is" (dangerous).

If you know what I mean.

Mary: "You saw it!"

.

Last edited by Mattlocked (June 20, 2014 10:34 am)

SusiGo · June 20, 2014 10:42 am

I am still not convinced (leaving Solar's theory aside for the moment):

I chose A because she is ....
A is ... because I chose her.

To me this is not the same. The question and the answer both felt odd to me from the beginning.

SolarSystem · June 20, 2014 10:42 am

Mattlocked, I see what you mean, and it probably can be read exactly the same each way. But to me there also lies another meaning in "She is like that because you chose her" - and that's that if he hadn't chosen her, she would be different; she became the way she is right now because John chose her. Do you know what I mean?
It's probably not what Sherlock meant, but I think it's what John is reacting to so strongly - because it implies (or can imply) that it's his fault that she is like that.

Last edited by SolarSystem (June 20, 2014 10:43 am)

Mattlocked · June 20, 2014 10:46 am

Yes, Solar, I see exactly what you mean.
One can probably understand it both ways. But we know that Mary was what she is before John chose her (CAM), so.....
It was just my very first understanding. "You have a wife like that because you chose her." "But I didn't know she is like that!" "Yes, you saw it."
So in a way it is still his fault. Not that Mary is what she is, but that his wife is what she is. Because he chose her.

SolarSystem · June 20, 2014 11:05 am

Yes, but I personally have my doubts about this whole "You saw it" business. If anything at all, he might have felt it in a, I don't know, subconscious sort of way. If you believe in such things. I'm not sure I do, so I'll probably never be able to agree with Sherlock on that one (assuming that he was being really serious here). Because I understand him saying "You chose her because she is like that" - otherwise it wouldn't make any sense to mention himself and make a comparison between John/himself and John/Mary, would it?

Mattlocked · June 20, 2014 11:14 am

"Because I understand him saying "You chose her because she is like that""
Oh, wait! I thought you understand it the other way 'round?

" (assuming that he was being really serious here)"
But we agreed in another thread that Sherlock wasn't serious, that he said all those things only to make Mary believe that she's safe - and so John will be, too.

I myself believe in things like "you saw it", btw.
To me it's quite obvious that we choose friends and partners not only consciously but also subconsciously. You like or dislike a person and can't even explain, why? This.

Anyway, just found this little bit in the world wide web. Forgive me if it has been posted before:
http://deducingbbcsherlock.tumblr.com/post/78511121776/in-teh-when-sherlock-says-that-oh-so-subtextual-line

Last edited by Mattlocked (June 20, 2014 11:16 am)