BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Johnlock: The Official Debate

besleybean · June 12, 2014 6:38 pm

I don't think so.
Why do you think there is?

Harriet · June 12, 2014 6:39 pm

Eye sex.

besleybean · June 12, 2014 6:40 pm

Mass delusion.

mrshouse · June 12, 2014 6:43 pm

Actually saying it to each other

tenderworld · June 12, 2014 6:44 pm

Attraction is there. An intense need and desire to be in one another's proximity. Dating: Can't forget the lines from Blind Banker: J: "Where two people who like each other go out and have fun?" S: "That's what I was suggesting." Their adventures together, continual. Courting: Sherlock has been courting John from the first time we see them together. I can provide the evidence on this if it is needed. Trust me, it's there in abundance. Bonding: The bond between Sherlock and John could not be stronger. They are each willing to literally die for the other. Something, BTW, we have seen that Mary is not willing to do for John. Witness that it was not she -- though she was there -- that jumped into the fire for John. Rather she stayed on the sidelines and sort of shouted at Sherlock. Living together: 221B.

besleybean · June 12, 2014 6:45 pm

They have never said 'I love you' in a way a couple would.
John has said he loves Sherlock, which is a different thing.
I don't think that attractioin is there.
John likes working with Sherlock.
BANKER: Sherlock was teasing John, cos what he was after from Sarah was sex, what he was describing, could have been taking tea with his mother.

Last edited by besleybean (June 12, 2014 6:48 pm)

mrshouse · June 12, 2014 6:47 pm

besleybean wrote:
They have never said 'I love you' in a way a couple would.
John has said he loves Sherlock, which is a different thing.

You must be kidding, now

Harriet · June 12, 2014 6:48 pm

besleybean wrote:
They have never said 'I love you' in a way a couple would.
John has said he loves Sherlock, which is a different thing.
I don't think that attractioin is there.
John likes working with Sherlock.

Oh, now this makes me curious.... tell us more about The Couple Way
*off to my cave*

besleybean · June 12, 2014 6:49 pm

See you later.

SusiGo · June 12, 2014 6:50 pm

BB: Yes. And I see nearly all that in Sherlock and John.

Last edited by SusiGo (June 12, 2014 6:51 pm)

tenderworld · June 12, 2014 6:51 pm

True, they have not said "I love you" in the way a couple would. They are not a conventional couple. They have each said that they love the other. (J: "The two people I love most." S: "The two people who love you most.") Mary helps them to express what could not have been expressed before, when it was just the two of them. She's like a safety valve in that way.

But again, what is said is much less important than what is shown.

SusiGo · June 12, 2014 6:52 pm

Bravo.

besleybean · June 12, 2014 6:52 pm

What is shown exactly?

tenderworld · June 12, 2014 7:01 pm

Sherlock's side: John is in his head continuously. John transforms him, makes him into a different man. Sherlock is willing to die for John, amongst other sacrifices he is willing to make for John.

John's side: John is immobilized without Sherlock.

besleybean · June 12, 2014 7:05 pm

John is the most important person in the world to Sherlock, it does not mean he's in love with him. It's like your kids being the most important people to you. You love them. But you are not in love with them.
I would die for my kids,. But I am not in love with my kids.
I dunno, John managed to secure a job and get laid without Sherlock.

tenderworld · June 12, 2014 7:14 pm

Well, we don't need to argue about it. But I'll try for the last word anyway: I would also die for my children, but I do not interact with them the way Sherlock and John interact with each other. There is longing there. How else can we interpret the look at the end of TSoT, just before Sherlock leaves the wedding in complete despair? If you missed it, go back and watch again a few dozen times. It is really unbelievable what is conveyed between them, which I agree with you, cannot be expressed in words.

besleybean · June 12, 2014 7:21 pm

Longing for adventure.
Sherlock is acknowledging his situation has changed. He misses John, like I miss my son in Italy.
Conveyed between them?
John does not long for Sherlock.
I watch Sherlock constantly and have done for nearly 4 years
There is nothing unbelievable and which cannot be sunmed up as close, loving friendship.
What John feels for Sherlock is not the same as he feels for his wife..or he would marry Sherlock.
I also don't think Sherlock leaves in complete despair, I think there are mixed emotions.

Last edited by besleybean (June 12, 2014 7:23 pm)

tenderworld · June 12, 2014 7:29 pm

Okay. We read that differently, though I do agree that it's not just John, whatever that means. There is the longing for comradery in adventure, what John brings to his life, certainly. The longing for what they had together, which Sherlock is losing. And I agree that John does not seem to have the same feelings for Sherlock, or at least is less in touch with them. The look that he returns in that scene is perfect: somewhat abashed. He can't handle the intensity.

besleybean · June 12, 2014 7:31 pm

Surely this is all about the baby...and Sherlock's support.

tenderworld · June 12, 2014 7:34 pm

Don't understand? What is all about the baby?