BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » This wedding is an extremely strange one!

besleybean · June 5, 2014 6:07 pm

Friendly jokes?
I actually think it HLV John is maimly angry at the situation.
But he's definitely more mad with Mary, than with Sherlock.

nakahara · June 5, 2014 6:11 pm

besleybean wrote:
Friendly jokes?
I actually think it HLV John is maimly angry at the situation.
But he's definitely more mad with Mary, than with Sherlock.

Oh, by "friendly jokes" I meant things like Mary´s comments "Oh Sherlock, neither of us was John´s first" and similar stuff she said to him in both TEH and TSOT.

LoveIsAViciousMotivator · June 5, 2014 6:15 pm

I thought those jokes were actually friendly especially Mary saying that Sherlock and her weren't the first. I think what we see in Mary was geniune in those scene because we see the adorable and kind side of Mary, especially in the beginning in HLV. She seems really eager to help her neighbor. Then as HLv continues, we see the other side of Mary. We see her light side, but in HLv, we see the dark side of Mary.

nakahara · June 5, 2014 6:22 pm

Well, Mary was fittingly described in the episode itself as a facade covering something hollow and mouldy inside. Therefore I doubt her acts before were actually the acts of kindness. They could be just pretence covering her cold, calculating true face behind smiling exterior.

besleybean · June 5, 2014 6:23 pm

Yeah, but she was calculating about CAM...Sherlock just got in the way!

Russell · June 6, 2014 5:44 am

mrshouse wrote:
Another thing: in the restaurant when John is about to propose to Mary I find he is really really nervous (which is quite understandable, of course) but he's not anticipating in a happy way, he never seems to smile or give Mary a truly loving look. In his "proposal" to Sherlock he's much more calm, his voice is steady, his hands are steady, the look he gives Sherlock seems much more reassured. And he smiles...

I know this post has kind of blown up since then (and most people already said anything I would have), but just wanted to say I like this comment. But I couldn't help but think, with it, that it wouldn't be surprising he's in a slightly different state in each, regardless of his closeness to either. Sherlock's friendship he's not worried about losing, he probably figures he'd be glad to do it, plus marriage is a definite and he's happily cruising ahead. With Mary, he is more strangely on edge, but, it's a bit bigger of a 'what if' question that he'd be nervous of possible rejection with, from the love of his life, of all people?.

SolarSystem · June 6, 2014 8:02 am

SusiGo wrote:
Yes. And I do not chime in with the "John haters". But for me this felt totally different than anything he said to Sherlock in series 1 and 2.

But couldn't it also be that John overreacted because he was fu**ing scared that Sholto would die - and once again, after TRF, he would just have to stand by without being able to do anything about it? I think he was scared as hell to lose a good friend once again. And right, shouting at Sherlock wasn't a nice thing to do, but in my headcanon he did this because he felt helpless, desperate and bloody scared.

SusiGo · June 6, 2014 8:08 am

Yes, that is a possible explanation I could accept. I did not think about the parallel to TRF, very well observed.

SolarSystem · June 6, 2014 8:23 am

I just thought that in that very moment memories of Sherlock up there on the roof might have come back to John and resulted in this very reaction. I have no idea if Mary's influence really has anything to do with it... to me this situation is about John, Sherlock and Sholto.

SusiGo · June 6, 2014 8:27 am

That is a very interesting take on the scene I had not thought about before (but which confirms my impression that Mary is a sort of third wheel in this episode).
Because if John is reminded of the shock of seeing his friend die without being able to help this also goes for Sherlock. Therefore he is saying "We would not do that to John Watson". He knows only too well that he once did such a thing to John and wants to prevent at all cost such pain from happening again.

Last edited by SusiGo (June 6, 2014 8:28 am)

SolarSystem · June 6, 2014 8:37 am

Absolutely, Sherlock's "We would not do that to John Watson" means so much more than just those simple words. I'm convinced that Sherlock is reminded of what he did to John, what he had to do to John in order to protect him... and that he wants to avoid something similar happening to him at all costs.
(And believe it or not, I'm tearing up here right now... )

SusiGo · June 6, 2014 8:46 am

Which only confirms my impression that TSoT is a very sad episode.

SolarSystem · June 6, 2014 9:04 am

Yes. I bet if we looked even closer we would find much more evidence for that sadness throughout the episode...

SusiGo · June 6, 2014 9:10 am

Mrs Hudson's prophetic words at the beginning, the chair scene, the speech, the dance-floor scene and Sherlock leaving ... and the small things ("Do you have a vacancy?", Mary teasing Sherlock about Sholto) ...

mrshouse · June 6, 2014 9:15 am

Erm, girls....
*fetal position and sobbing uncontrollably *

SolarSystem · June 6, 2014 9:18 am

*hands the mrs a shock blanket*

SolarSystem · June 6, 2014 9:22 am

Oh, and as for this wedding being a bit strange:

http://dudeufugly.tumblr.com/post/87956527426/how-to-celebrate-your-first-pregnancy-by-the-watsons

mrshouse · June 6, 2014 9:29 am

SolarSystem wrote:
Oh, and as for this wedding being a bit strange:

http://dudeufugly.tumblr.com/post/87956527426/how-to-celebrate-your-first-pregnancy-by-the-watsons

LOLZ! Funny and well observed

SusiGo · June 6, 2014 9:55 am

Yes. It seems they had all the classic wedding/happy marriage/parents-to-be elements there and chose to give all of them a little twist.

lil · June 6, 2014 2:20 pm

@The wedding.

I think it was Mycrofts Redbeard warning to Sherlock on the phone..the warning that doggy heaven and happy ever afters were a lie..led to Sherlock re-evaluating the Mary and John situation during the wedding.
Sherlock knows his brother is never wrong...so Sherlock is sort of re-deducing Mary.
Hence..the calculating look at her as she runs up the stairs with Sholtos room number..the wierd telegram stall..the derogatory way he refers to her as leash..your wife John ..and Johns snappy retort....@watching Mary throughout the day leading to the pregnancy deduction..the strange look then at and from Mary...the sort of fake/strained smile/happiness after..and the early pensive walkout.

The vow he made did seem a bit as if he expected to have to be there for them for something didn't it.

That whole mindpalace scene with Mycroft..seemed as much about planning..coincidence. .attraction..and other things than identifying the Mayfly man.

The post wedding blog post..sex holiday snark..and your next wedding comment..and the sarcastic how wonderful it all is.... stuff seems a bit off...bitter? Idk. Something.

I wonder if the reconnection with Janine was b4 or after he met lady Smallwood..and if choosing a bed in a drugs den right next door to Johns neighbours son was really coincidence.
Sherlock...obviously....hates Magnusson...but a boring blackmail case.. he wasn't interested in that in Scandal...he was all meh boring pay them...until it turned out to be something else..and Smallwood ok she was important...but how pesky and dull was her case...oh ask a blackmailer for a letter my husband wrote a decade ago......dull.
Maybe he had already connected Mary to Magnusson in some way...and Smallwood with her dull pesky blackmail case gave him the excuse to investigate.

I do think the sadness..deductions..@re-evaluating by Sherlock @the wedding stemmed from that hint from Mycroft...and the Magnusson parliamentary problem had been brewing for him right back to the news ticker at the start of TEH.

Last edited by lil (June 6, 2014 4:17 pm)