BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Women Of BBC Sherlock Appreciation

LoveIsAViciousMotivator · June 5, 2014 4:20 pm

*Disclaimer: I wanted to add this statement because of some posts in the beginning. This is an appreciation thread for all the women of BBC Sherlock. If you don't like all of them, that's fine. Just show appreciation and love of the ones that you do enjoy watching and love. This thread isn't trying to force anyone to like these characters.*

This topic is dedicated to all the women in BBC Sherlock. It's a shame so many people in this fandom always try to demeanize them or devalue their importance in the show, so I want to do a topic where others as well as myself can share our thoughts and love for these women. They all need it!

Sally Donovan

Ever since you called Sherlock a freak, people had it in for you. What you said was unprofessional, but so was Sherlock revealing your private sex life. I enjoy the scenes between Lestrade and yourself. You two seemed to get along very well and I bet the only thing that separates you two is Sherlock. I bet it hurt that in order to call attention to Sherlock that you may lose a boss you have come to respect. I'm glad that you are still kicking and the relationship between you and Lestrade is still strong despite the events of TRF. I wish we see more of you in future episodes.

Molly Hooper

Oh, Molly, you are such a good person. Sherlock doesn't deserve you, but he now sees you as a person and as a friend. You go girl! I hate how your crush on Sherlock is now treated as a joke or treated as a point to show how weak you are. You are not weak, Molly. Lots of people have crushes on people and unrequited love so why do people use it to label you weak would always be beyond me! But you aren't weak. I bet being a pathologist is a tough job and the fact that you can stay optimistic and sparkly shows your strength. You were the one who stood up to Sherlock and made him aplogize for how he has treated you. Look at John's face! He is shocked! You were the only person who could help Sherlock in his time of need! You did so twice! You didn't have to help him in faking his death, but you did because you love him. The next time wasn't the real you but a projection of Sherlock's Mind Palace. But it was you he turned to help him survive the bullet wound. It shows his trust and faith in you. You may never know, but we do. Molly, you are a source of strength, not a weakness. =D

Mrs. Hudson

Oh, Mrs. Hudson, we now know why you have a hip problem! You were an exotic dancer married to a drug dealer part of a cartel. Realizing the bad stuff he did, you took action to end his criminal activities by enlisting the help of Sherlock Holmes despite the evidence that could convict you for taking part in your husband's organization. And you showed your appreication for Sherlock's help in getting your husband executed by giving him a discount on 221B. You are the only landlady who could put up with his tantrums and demands with a motherly scorn or warmth. If you didn't, Sherlock and John may have spent half of this show moving from place to place because of Sherlock's habits. I'm sorry that Sherlock doesn't seem to see the importance of you, but he isn't himself these days. But you do have a point and you do matter.

Irene Adler

Many people in this fandom don't seem to understand you or take you seriously. I'm saddened that the writers made you a villianess when your ACD counterpart was only trying to keep her husband and herself safe from any wrath of the king. It is also a shame you didn't defeat Sherlock Holmes. But despite that, you are an awesome character. You did get to Sherlock. You do matter to him. You took his weakness of his inexperience in the part of romance and sex, going naked to throw off his game. And it worked! You even got him to be speaking gibberish because of your genius. XD You made a lasting impression on him and no one can take that away. You are such a domianting force to be reckoned with. You will always and forever be The Woman in Sherlock's eyes.

Sarah Sawyer

I can't forget you. You were the first girlfriend of John Watson and despite Sherlock's irriation at your presence, you made an impression. You are the only girlfriend beside Mary that Sherlock ever remembered the name of. You helped Sherlock and John in the cirus. You are a woman of action. Too bad we never got a chance to see you one last time before you left.

And last but not least...

Mary Morstan Watson

Oh....my...goodness! You get alot of hate and vile. It's shame that people either treat you like you are an idiot or treat you like the most evil witch on the planet. You are a complex character with a dark and complex past. You belong here no matter what people say. You are clever that even Sherlock couldn't help but smile at despite the fact that you hurt him. You shouldn't have done what you did but I understand you had your reasons. People sometimes choose the easy way not the right way, but that's okay. You made a mistake and everyone can make up for it. You can change and be redeemed. I know it will be hard, but you can do it! I hope Series 4 gives you that proper arc and if they don't, it would be a shame and a waste.

Last edited by LoveIsAViciousMotivator (June 5, 2014 6:28 pm)

SusiGo · June 5, 2014 4:42 pm

I think it is an interesting idea to make an appreciation thread for the women in Sherlock although I do not think that they are in need of defence. They can stand for their own.
And after all the Sherlock Holmes universe is about the adventures of two men. The show is centred around Sherlock and John and I do no mind this at all. And I like the variety of female characters we get. But we must accept that they are not the main focus of the show.
And adding my two cents -
1. What about Janine and Kitty?
2. If John had to marry a woman, I would have preferred Sarah by far. I always liked her.

Last edited by SusiGo (June 5, 2014 5:01 pm)

mrshouse · June 5, 2014 4:43 pm

I really want to say something about the purpose of this thread:
It's great to like someone but I feel a little offended by the ways it seems to be motivated. I don't see anyone on this forum belittling the parts strong women take! I adore lots of them! But anybody should be entitled to like or dislike a character apart from gender. I don't care about gender, I care about actions, sentiments and the chemistry of actors.
Needed to make that clear, at least concerning my position.

Tinks · June 5, 2014 4:52 pm

I agree with mrshouse - I don't think gender should come into it, and when it doesn't that's when you know the writers have it spot on, and there are writers out there who can do this.
I have a problem with Sherlock sometimes in it's depiction of strong women as using their sexuality to control people or being violent.
In fact I have a problem with the idea of "strong women" - we don't label male characters according to whether they are "strong" or not.
I love Molly, and hope they don't change her too much.
I also thought Mary showed great promise.....until HLV.
Mrs Hudson is great, of course.
Sally, I don't like; I understand her reasons for being resentful of Sherlock, but the "freak" thing was too cruel.
Likewise Irene Adler - I didn't like her depiction at all.

Last edited by Tinks (June 5, 2014 4:55 pm)

LoveIsAViciousMotivator · June 5, 2014 5:01 pm

mrshouse wrote:
I really want to say something about the purpose of this thread:
It's great to like someone but I feel a little offended by the ways it seems to be motivated. I don't see anyone on this forum belittling the parts strong women take! I adore lots of them! But anybody should be entitled to like or dislike a character apart from gender. I don't care about gender, I care about actions, sentiments and the chemistry of actors.
Needed to make that clear, at least concerning my position.

My intention was to give an appreciation towards the women of BBC Sherlock. Nothing more. I was motivated to do this thread because of what I have been seeing around the internet lately about these characters. Most of them negative. I just wanted to make a topic where we can share our love for these women as well as our thoughts on them.

That's all. I'm not saying you can't call out their flaws. Gosh no! May we just be able to show love and appreciate what these women give us without resorting to negatvity or devalue them?

@SusiGo:

You are completely right! I need to add in Janine there! Totally forgot about her!

@Tinks: I agree with the strong women thing. Male don't get that, so why should female characters?

Last edited by LoveIsAViciousMotivator (June 5, 2014 5:05 pm)

SusiGo · June 5, 2014 5:05 pm

Just one thing - what if I do not feel any sympathy towards a female character? If I do not love and appreciate her even if I try?

mrshouse · June 5, 2014 5:08 pm

I didn't see negative reactions to the women in general, but mostly Mary, and your opening words didn't give me the impression you wanted to discuss but to worship. Which you can do, of course, but in a better world we would not discuss gender.

LoveIsAViciousMotivator · June 5, 2014 5:12 pm

SusiGo wrote:
Just one thing - what if I do not feel any sympathy towards a female character? If I do not love and appreciate her even if I try?

Well, how about the ones you do have sympathy for? Tell me about them! =) What do you like about them? Do you relate to them?

I appreciate them all, but I understand that others may see things differently. This thread is no different than any single character appreciation thread. The difference between this thread and others is that it isn't talking about just one.

@mrshouse: I do alot and it saddens me. This isn't just about Mary. Many of these characters are given some type of label or hate thrown at them. I agree. In a better world, gender shouldn't matter, but it seems when the male characters do questionable actions, they are viewed as flawed while the females are hated so drastically.

Last edited by LoveIsAViciousMotivator (June 5, 2014 5:22 pm)

tonnaree · June 5, 2014 5:21 pm

"Mrs. Hudson

Oh, Mrs. Hudson, we now know why you have a hip problem! You were an exotic dancer married to a drug dealer part of a cartel. Realizing the bad stuff he did, you took action to end his criminal activities by enlisting the help of Sherlock Holmes despite the evidence that could convict you for taking part in your husband's organization. And you showed your appreication for Sherlock's help in getting your husband executed by giving him a discount on 221B. You are the only landlady who could put up with his tantrums and demands with a motherly scorn or warmth. If you didn't, Sherlock and John may have spent half of this show moving from place to place because of Sherlock's habits. I'm sorry that Sherlock doesn't seem to see the importance of you, but he isn't himself these days. But you do have a point and you do matter.
"

Of all these women I would make the argument that Mrs. Hudson matters to Sherlock more than any of the others. Yes, he can be sharp and rude to her but he also tossed that bloke out a window for her, repeatedly! Their little moments of bickering strike me as a Mother/Son dynamic. And never forget Sherlock's statement that London would fall if Mrs. Hudson ever left Baker Street.

LoveIsAViciousMotivator · June 5, 2014 5:26 pm

tonnaree wrote:
"Mrs. Hudson

Oh, Mrs. Hudson, we now know why you have a hip problem! You were an exotic dancer married to a drug dealer part of a cartel. Realizing the bad stuff he did, you took action to end his criminal activities by enlisting the help of Sherlock Holmes despite the evidence that could convict you for taking part in your husband's organization. And you showed your appreication for Sherlock's help in getting your husband executed by giving him a discount on 221B. You are the only landlady who could put up with his tantrums and demands with a motherly scorn or warmth. If you didn't, Sherlock and John may have spent half of this show moving from place to place because of Sherlock's habits. I'm sorry that Sherlock doesn't seem to see the importance of you, but he isn't himself these days. But you do have a point and you do matter.
"

Of all these women I would make the argument that Mrs. Hudson matters to Sherlock more than any of the others. Yes, he can be sharp and rude to her but he also tossed that bloke out a window for her, repeatedly! Their little moments of bickering strike me as a Mother/Son dynamic. And never forget Sherlock's statement that London would fall if Mrs. Hudson ever left Baker Street.

I just didn't like his statement towards Mrs.Hudson. I just felt that was uncalled for. From saying "Hudson leave Baker Street, England will fall." to "What exactly is the point of you?", that really irk me.

tonnaree · June 5, 2014 5:34 pm

LoveIsAViciousMotivator wrote:
tonnaree wrote:
"Mrs. Hudson

Oh, Mrs. Hudson, we now know why you have a hip problem! You were an exotic dancer married to a drug dealer part of a cartel. Realizing the bad stuff he did, you took action to end his criminal activities by enlisting the help of Sherlock Holmes despite the evidence that could convict you for taking part in your husband's organization. And you showed your appreication for Sherlock's help in getting your husband executed by giving him a discount on 221B. You are the only landlady who could put up with his tantrums and demands with a motherly scorn or warmth. If you didn't, Sherlock and John may have spent half of this show moving from place to place because of Sherlock's habits. I'm sorry that Sherlock doesn't seem to see the importance of you, but he isn't himself these days. But you do have a point and you do matter.
"

Of all these women I would make the argument that Mrs. Hudson matters to Sherlock more than any of the others. Yes, he can be sharp and rude to her but he also tossed that bloke out a window for her, repeatedly! Their little moments of bickering strike me as a Mother/Son dynamic. And never forget Sherlock's statement that London would fall if Mrs. Hudson ever left Baker Street.

I just didn't like his statement towards Mrs.Hudson. I just felt that was uncalled for. From saying "Hudson leave Baker Street, England will fall." to "What exactly is the point of you?", that really irk me.

But remember that last statement was made while he was bleeding internally and suffering great pain. Above and beyond the emotional and mental stress of the situation he was physically dying at that particular moment.

SusiGo · June 5, 2014 5:41 pm

I did not like the remark either but he was in an extremely stressful situation.

It is strange but I can relate to most of the female characters. I even understand Sally although her behaviour in TRF was horrible. I have always liked Irene. Sarah was clever, kind and tough, she even stood up to Sherlock. Molly - do not start me on Molly. And Mrs Hudson.

I think it is just Mary that really irks me. I think it may be the imbalance in her character, the bad outweighing the good by far. If she was meant to be real villain, fine. I could go with that. But I do not want to be forced into liking her and to me the statements of creators and especially Amanda sometimes sounded that way.

maryagrawatson · June 5, 2014 5:51 pm

I believe that Sherlock thinks it's so obvious that Mrs. Hudson means the world to him that he doesn't need to state it.

I rewatched SIP last night and was amused by how much hugging and kissing there is of Mrs. Hudson. I know that from a production POV that's Benedict happy to see his mum's longtime friend Una, but we get a little follow up of that in SIB during the "England would fall" scene where Sherlock puts his arm around her.

(Speaking of SIP, I'm trying to imagine Sherlock in Florida. The image that comes to mind is of an undercover Sherlock in a loud shirt, Bermuda shorts, sunglasses, and a sunburn...)

The disgusting and completely out of character (don't care if he was in morphine withdrawal and dying, it's still out of character) "Then what exactly is the point of you" line is apparently a famous Dr. Who quote. What exactly was the point of using it here, I have no idea, and it irks me to no end. It does a disservice to Sherlock's character and his relationship to Mrs. Hudson.

"Sherlock Holmes, if you've been YouTubing!" is another of my favourite lines from the series. Mrs. Hudson has at least two of the top 10.

Mary

LoveIsAViciousMotivator · June 5, 2014 5:54 pm

SusiGo wrote:
I did not like the remark either but he was in an extremely stressful situation.

It is strange but I can relate to most of the female characters. I even understand Sally although her behaviour in TRF was horrible. I have always liked Irene. Sarah was clever, kind and tough, she even stood up to Sherlock. Molly - do not start me on Molly. And Mrs Hudson.

I think it is just Mary that really irks me. I think it may be the imbalance in her character, the bad outweighing the good by far. If she was meant to be real villain, fine. I could go with that. But I do not want to be forced into liking her and to me the statements of creators and especially Amanda sometimes sounded that way.

Nope, no one is forcing you to like anyone. You don't have to, but at least, you can understand why some people do like the character. I don't condone any opinion shove down into people's throats.You are free to like whoever you want to like. =)

I really liked Sarah! She was just such a cool character. Everytime I watch her in Series 1, I always feel sad that she left off-screen in Series 2. =(

@tonnaree: Yeah, I know, he was suffering from alot of pain, but the statement was just so horrible.

I wish we get to see more hugs from Sherlock and Mrs.Hudson. That was surely lacking in Series 3. XDDDD

Mrs. Hudson really does love her boys. =D

Last edited by LoveIsAViciousMotivator (June 5, 2014 5:58 pm)

LoveIsAViciousMotivator · June 5, 2014 7:11 pm

I'm so sorry for a double post, but I just wanted to let people know I put a disclaimer at the beginning. Hopefully, no one gets the wrong impression.

And I also wanted to address my original post: I'm sorry if it comes off as heated, I was just reeling in from so many negativity towards these characters I felt like I needed to make a thread so people could have a place to show their love and appreciation for this charcters without any negativity or vile. Nowhere did I give out names or said it was from this website. I spoke of the fandom in a general sense. I'm not implying anything from anyone here or this website. I was just talking about the Sherlock fandom in general.

I do apologize if my post caused any offense, I just wanted to express my feelings and my love for the characters at the same time. It wasn't my intent to offend but I should have written that post when I wasn't so heated. So I do deeply apologize and hope that, despite the rocky start, people can come here to show their love and appreciation towards the women of BBC Sherlock.

Last edited by LoveIsAViciousMotivator (June 5, 2014 7:23 pm)

nakahara · June 5, 2014 8:04 pm

Ladies of Sherlock, thank you for being as you are - the flawed human beings with your good and bad sides and not some unwatchable and artificial politically correct constructs with ideal characteristics.

Sally Donovan

Sally, you are quite competent policewoman with a real passion for your work. What a pity that you allowed your feelings of professional jealousy to diminish and compromise the good job you were doing for Scotland Yard. Please, undestand, that there is always a chance you might encounter a person who does your job better than you. That´s still no reason to call that person "a freak" and insult him or her by calling him/her a psychopath, especially if he/she makes your job easy. The cases you are solving are not a competition between some other people and you - those cases have a higher goal in protecting the victims of crime and restoring an order to society. It would be wise to learn from your boss, DI Lestrade, that if those goals are achieved, it´s no matter that some other people than your division contibuted to them. And please, if you cause a gross miscarriage of justice:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miscarriage_of_justice
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_miscarriage_of_justice_cases

in that case it would be nice to say at least "I´m sorry" to the victims of your error who were wrongly prosecuted and had their professional and personal life destroyed because of your faulty judgement. If your male colleague managed that, than so can you.

Molly Hooper

Molly, you are the real strong woman of this story, made all the more sympathetic by the fact that your strenght never manifested itself by some pathetical speeches about woman´s worth but by real acts of help and compassion you displayed when your friends were in mortal danger. More unasuming and yet bold hero never existed. You were not afraid to risk everything, your career and safety, to do the right thing in the right time - and you never demanded any acolades for it. Please, don´t ever change, you are perfect!

Mrs. Hudson

Mrs. Hudson, I want you for my landlady! You are so admirably tolerant, kind and mothely that it´s impossible not to love you. Of course, your boys, especially that excentric one, are sometimes rude to you - but the wisdom of your age taught you to percieve sweet interior hidden behind rough exterior of words carelessly spoken by such angry young men. So those things can only amuse you, but you cannot be hurt by them.

Sarah

Sarah, you confirmed my suspicion that Englishwomen are much more BAMFy than Englishmen. And with your sharp eyes you taught Sherlock a lesson that it´s unwise to underestimate a help of ordinary people, even if you are a genius.

Irene Adler

Once again, Irene, thank you for being the woman who uses her womanly charms to achieve what she wants from the world - I prefer you and your devilish charm over some politically correct character any day, even if your profession is not entirely moral. On the other hand, I cannot honestly say that I feel sorry that Sherlock defeated you in your game. You already had your victory, there was no need to gloat over it. Similarly, you disappointed me when you were willing to sacrifice the lives of ordinary citizens to terrorists just to ensure the life in riches for yourself. You commited the huge act of hubris with that and you got exactly what you deserved when Sherlock turned that scheme against you. Remember, the godess Nemesis always takes undeserved happiness from such criminals as you. Hopefully you learned from your mistake and will not repeat this in the future.

Kitty Riley

Kitty, I kind od understand you were trying to build a succesfull career for yourself - but I still have a hard time to percieve you and your tabloids as something different than trash. You are a hyena thriving on misfortunes of others.
Your only redeeming quality is that you at least apologised for that dastardly deed you have done, unlike Sally Donovan.

Mary Morstan

Your nice facade covers a cold, emotionally empty heart which is unable to feel compassion for anyone, I´m afraid. And the fact that you were able to accept invitation and to play the act of a sweet pregnant wife in front of parents of the man you effectivelly murdered - unbelievable, that gall of you! Sadly, I have a feeling you still slept without remorse and that you looked at yourself in the mirror without any bad feelings after that. From your contrite words it seems you are aware that not everything in your life is praiseworthy and that you should change. But your deeds thus far were less than stellar.

Janine

You seem so sympathetic and yet you are the biggest enigma of all. I´m curious who are you really and what is your real purpose in this story.

SolarSystem · June 5, 2014 8:13 pm

Lovely, nakahara, just lovely!

LoveIsAViciousMotivator · June 5, 2014 8:22 pm

*claps* Indeed! =D

SusiGo · June 5, 2014 8:28 pm

Kudos, nakahara.

lil · June 5, 2014 9:15 pm

Yeps agreement@kudos naka.

I don't really think there is a lot of negativity surrounding the women of Sherlock.
Almost all of them are successful strong brave independent etc in their own lives and in their own ways.
Look@lady Smallwood, Anthea , Sarah , Mrs Hudson , Molly , Irene, @ even Mary.

Things seem to only get a bit odd only in their relationship with Sherlock...which considering Sherlocks behaviour and/or hotness isn't surprising.

Mollys crush...was a bit lame...but she is trying to get over it..and move on..and became a capable and good friend in TRF..and even stronger in S03.
Disturbingly this seems to now be replicated in Andersons...fancrush/mancrush..

Irene...used her sexuality to intimidate and dominate...and then seemed weak perhaps with her fascination for Sherlock.. but then so did Moriarty....to use Molly..and play/tease/irritate Sherlock..and apparently lost his life in a final fascinating game..so equal m/f there.

Donavan...I don't see people show more dislike for her than Anderson for the adultery....but she does seem nasty/bitchy about Sherlock...but then easy to see why.

As for Mary...is she judged harder for being a woman..or do people try to understand and be sympathetic because she is a woman...?
Idk..interesting.

Eitherway I don't actually see stereotypical woman only or misogynistic writing in Sherlock or from fans here..there are an awful lot of positives for women .

From Mycrofts boss...the agent/assasin that fooled SH..the strong brave husband executing Mrs Hudson..Sarah..omg Janine!...etc etc...all the women are great....expecting them to also have a sensible...reasonable relationship with Sherlock Holmes...when no one else apart from John does might be pushing it.