*high fives bb*

lil wrote:

I am kinda shocked that people would think Mary and Sherlock similar at all morality wise or in any other way

I think that Mary is the nail in the coffin of the 'Sherlock is a sociopath' theory. Mary is a sociopath, Sherlock is a human on the Asperger end of the 'normality' scale when it comes to dealing with emotions. Sherlock's moral compass has always been very strong, even in the earliest days of the series, and it becomes even more so in sharp contrast to Mary's.

Mary

No ones seems to criticize the fact that Sherlock tells John to keep Mary in line when she was trying to help him. Really, Sherlock? 

Yes, I believe Sherlock and Mary share similar traits. They both have complexity as well as be adorable. XD

And they are not sociopaths. No such thing as a sociopath anymore.


 

Last edited by LoveIsAViciousMotivator (June 5, 2014 4:28 pm)

Yes, in The Empty Hearse, on the train, for instance...though I suppose he did think he was going to die!

This is true. And yet I do not like it after all Sherlock did for him that day and in the months before. He has not only done his duty as best man but also tries to prevent John's friend and guest from being killed. Bit harsh, if you ask me. 

Tbh, this is one of the few moments where I really do not like or understand John. 

Yes. And I do not chime in with the "John haters". But for me this felt totally different than anything he said to Sherlock in series 1 and 2. 

besleybean wrote:

And I do think it's Mary that made the difference...

It's not Mary. It's still fallout from the Fall. John is so angry towards Sherlock in season 3. Even when he thinks he's forgiven in and moved on, he hasn't. The two of them are walking on eggshells around each other all through series 3.

Mary is doing her best to push them together, at least in TEH and TSOT. "I'll talk him 'round." "I like him." "So are you going to see him again?" "Show him it's still the good old days."

Sherlock and John's paths diverged after the Fall and they haven't found a new normal for their relationship yet. They are clinging to the idea of an old life that is gone and, again, John has major unresolved anger towards having to watch Sherlock 'die.' They are not 'best friends' in series 3.

Mary

besleybean wrote:

I can see this...
Tho I think by Last Vow, they are getting back to how they were.

Possibly. What we're missing is a glimpse into Sherlock's second hospital stay. It's made clear that John and Mary weren't talking, so I bet John spent a lot of time at the hospital with Sherlock. If the two of them hashed anything out, it would have been then.

Mary

The way I see it:

John barking at Sherlock and insulting him in TSOT in "Sholto scene" - definitively Mary´s influence. It´s sad but I saw many men who immediately took up the negative traits of women they married and who suddenly turned all snobby and unpleasant to their former friends just because their spouse didn´t like them. John is not unique in that. (And yes, I always had a theory that Mary never actually liked Sherlock - she was uneasy around him because she feared he will one day disclose the truth about her. Those little acts of malice she aimed at him in the guise of "friendly jokes" were symptomatic of that.)

On the other hand, the scene at Baker Street in HLV where John threatens Sherlock with violence: the last bouts of TEH. I believe, John had forgiven Sherlock entirely in TEH, yet after the shocking revelation in HLV that he married a liar and a murderer those feelings of distrust and betrayal were roused again and for a while, John was lashing out at others in blind rage. Sherlock being the person closest to him and the reason of his former grief, he inadvertedly became the first target of his rage. While John´s behaviour in TSOT was disrespectful for no reason, here I can kinda understand John.