BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Molly and Sherlock

maryagrawatson · May 11, 2014 7:08 pm

Sherlock, for all his hatred of bullies, is a bully himself. He can be absolutely despicable to the people who love him most, like Mrs. Hudson, and with his clients, who put up with it because he's so brilliant and they need him.

Molly is the only character who has consistently put her foot down and told Sherlock, "Yeah, you might be brilliant and I love you, but it is not okay to treat people the way you do. Grow up!" Rather amazingly, she has earned his respect. Perhaps at first it was likely more of his play acting, "I'd better behave or she won't give me body parts", but after the Christmas scene in SIB, he definitely sees her a person whose feelings matter to him.

I love the scene in TEH after leaving the train guy's apartment. Sherlock jokes with Molly and gives her not just one, but two genuine, heartwarming, beautiful smiles. I love the second one the best. Just before he kisses her, he looks at her with such genuine fondness that there is no doubt they are friends now. (And he listens to her. She wanted to have dinner and he invites her out to eat after the case!)

I have issues with Molly slapping him in HLV, but I love the scolding she gives him. John is seems worried, but Molly is absolutely livid, and even though Sherlock tries to deflect the attention back to her, she got her point across, as evidenced in the later mind palace scene. Isn't interesting that he goes to Molly (and Anderson!), not John, for the medical advice he needs to save his life?

I think that Molly has had a lot to do with how much growing up Sherlock has done over the course of the three series and I hope we'll see even more of her in series four.

My favourite Sherlock/Molly exchange:

MOLLY: It’s just that that’s what John says he does, so if I’m being John ...
SHERLOCK: You’re not being John – you’re being yourself.

Mary

Last edited by maryagrawatson (May 11, 2014 7:09 pm)

NatureNoHumansNo · May 11, 2014 8:48 pm

I think Molly is a strong Character and often underevaluated in the forum.
Her strengh is, imo, based on two facts :
1/ she's never in a struggle of power with Sherlock, as John or mycroft can be.
2/ she never fakes anything, lie, pretend or play a game.
She's absolutely genuine and that's what make her strong.
I can imagine sherlock and Molly having a kind of weird/odd romance ( not a regular one with flowers, valentine's day or vacation in Venice ) . Actually, I don't really care ( as long as the episodes keep being good, everything is ok to me) but i'm not opposed to the idea as most sherlockians here .

maryagrawatson · May 11, 2014 9:52 pm

I think that Molly does have some power over Sherlock in that she determines if he gets access to the morgue for experiments, body parts, etc. It's a more subtle power play than with Mycroft and John, of course, she but does have something Sherlock wants and she has enough self esteem to not give it without demanding respect in return.

I'm a Sherlock/Molly shipper.

Mary

tonnaree · May 11, 2014 10:32 pm

maryagrawatson wrote:
Molly is the only character who has consistently put her foot down and told Sherlock, "Yeah, you might be brilliant and I love you, but it is not okay to treat people the way you do. Grow up!"
I think that Molly has had a lot to do with how much growing up Sherlock has done over the course of the three series and I hope we'll see even more of her in series four.

I agree that Molly has come to influence Sherlock in some ways and that he has grown to respect her. But to say that she is the only character to call Sherlock on his behavior is wrong.

A key part of Sherlock's relationship with John is that John is the one by his side saying "Timing" and "A bit not good." In TSoTT Sherlock himself says that it's always you John Watson, you always keep me right.

maryagrawatson · May 11, 2014 10:55 pm

John puts up with a lot of crap from Sherlock that Molly wouldn't. John wants Sherlock to behave. Molly wants Sherlock to grow up.

Mary

MahnSherlolly03 · May 24, 2014 1:14 am

tonnaree wrote:
maryagrawatson wrote:
Molly is the only character who has consistently put her foot down and told Sherlock, "Yeah, you might be brilliant and I love you, but it is not okay to treat people the way you do. Grow up!"
I think that Molly has had a lot to do with how much growing up Sherlock has done over the course of the three series and I hope we'll see even more of her in series four.
I agree that Molly has come to influence Sherlock in some ways and that he has grown to respect her. But to say that she is the only character to call Sherlock on his behavior is wrong.

A key part of Sherlock's relationship with John is that John is the one by his side saying "Timing" and "A bit not good." In TSoTT Sherlock himself says that it's always you John Watson, you always keep me right.

maryagrawatson wrote:
John puts up with a lot of crap from Sherlock that Molly wouldn't. John wants Sherlock to behave. Molly wants Sherlock to grow up.

Mary

Both good points.

I agree with you, Mary (love your username, btw). I am a Sherlolly shipper, but I believe that I am just unbiased enough to know that my belief in them is not totally wishful thinking. Even if they never end up together, she obviously has a huge influence on him, and I can see them being very good friends for a long time.

Marta · May 24, 2014 10:50 am

maryagrawatson wrote:
John puts up with a lot of crap from Sherlock that Molly wouldn't. John wants Sherlock to behave. Molly wants Sherlock to grow up.

Mary

This is a good point.

John's influence on Sherlock is huge but he can't make him care about people's feelings. When he talks to people, he doesn't really care if he's rude or if he hurts somebody. John gives him hints but he never says: I don't like being called an idiot / You can't insult my girlfriends / etc. They don't talk much about their feelings. It's different with Molly. It's Molly who Sherlock apologizes to in Scandal; John is surprised, as if he never heard him apologize before. He never says anything about her being in love with him again; he doesn't say a word about Tom; he wants to thank her. For me he treats her like a sister and he's really careful with his words and actions towards her, something he hasn't with John, Lestrade, Mycroft and anyone else. I don't ship them but I think they have a special relationship and Molly changes him in a way John doesn't and, as he's more like his partner, really can't. They couldn't heve become friends if John couldn't tolerate Sherlock's behaviour but for Sherlock's development, it's important if there is somebody who tells him off.

besleybean · May 24, 2014 11:42 am

And John and Molly are equally violent when telling off Sherlock.

maryagrawatson · May 24, 2014 12:52 pm

besleybean wrote:
And John and Molly are equally violent when telling off Sherlock.

I'm glad someone else is bothered by this.

With Molly, I can just about let it go because of the super extreme circumstances and that it was really done by the writers to set up the later mind palace scene.

But John needs anger management counseling. He is like Jekyll and Hyde. The guy is just too cute and adorable for words most of the time and then that switch gets flipped in his brain and he goes into his violent mode and it's scary! There's obviously some PTSD going on there with the anger issues. A better counselor would be a good idea.

Mary

Last edited by maryagrawatson (May 24, 2014 12:52 pm)

nakahara · May 24, 2014 7:53 pm

maryagrawatson wrote:
besleybean wrote:
And John and Molly are equally violent when telling off Sherlock.
I'm glad someone else is bothered by this.

With Molly, I can just about let it go because of the super extreme circumstances and that it was really done by the writers to set up the later mind palace scene.

But John needs anger management counseling. He is like Jekyll and Hyde. The guy is just too cute and adorable for words most of the time and then that switch gets flipped in his brain and he goes into his violent mode and it's scary! There's obviously some PTSD going on there with the anger issues. A better counselor would be a good idea.

Mary

Yes, in HLV, even Sherlock who knows John best is shocked when he witnesses John´s violent antics and realises how his violent tendencies deteriorated in the short time they were separated.

But I wouldn´t blame the councellor. Even the miracle psychologist would be unable to help if John himself denies he has some serious problem. John must comprehend himself that this can´t go on.

tonnaree · May 24, 2014 8:43 pm

nakahara wrote:
maryagrawatson wrote:
besleybean wrote:
And John and Molly are equally violent when telling off Sherlock.
I'm glad someone else is bothered by this.

With Molly, I can just about let it go because of the super extreme circumstances and that it was really done by the writers to set up the later mind palace scene.

But John needs anger management counseling. He is like Jekyll and Hyde. The guy is just too cute and adorable for words most of the time and then that switch gets flipped in his brain and he goes into his violent mode and it's scary! There's obviously some PTSD going on there with the anger issues. A better counselor would be a good idea.

Mary
Yes, in HLV, even Sherlock who knows John best is shocked when he witnesses John´s violent antics and realises how his violent tendencies deteriorated in the short time they were separated.

But I wouldn´t blame the councellor. Even the miracle psychologist would be unable to help if John himself denies he has some serious problem. John must comprehend himself that this can´t go on.

Can you give an example of this? I never see Sherlock shocked. I see him bemused and impressed.

nakahara · May 24, 2014 8:52 pm

The moment when CAM´s bodyguards are checking them out and they pull that metal thingy out of John´s trousers Sherlock looks genuinely shocked. His look is all like "you are kidding me...."

besleybean · May 24, 2014 8:54 pm

I kind of have to agree with tonnaree here.
Sherlock is surprised, amused and impressed.

Last edited by besleybean (May 24, 2014 8:54 pm)

nakahara · May 24, 2014 9:01 pm

No, he is obviously disturbed.
Surprised as well, because for all of his deductions, he completelly overlooked the detail of John having a weapon on him.

besleybean · May 24, 2014 9:03 pm

This is true...

LoveIsAViciousMotivator · May 24, 2014 10:14 pm

nakahara wrote:
No, he is obviously disturbed.
Surprised as well, because for all of his deductions, he completelly overlooked the detail of John having a weapon on him.

I agree with you there! Sherlock looks actually shocked and surpised by John's addiction to violence. Also, notice when Billy mentions how his arm got sprain, saying some addict looking for his next fix, Sherlock was shocked there as well. His face was like: John? You did that?

besleybean · May 24, 2014 10:17 pm

To be honest, in that scene, they all were!
This was leading up to John's realisation that he is an adrenalin junkie!

nakahara · May 24, 2014 10:18 pm

LoveIsAViciousMotivator wrote:
nakahara wrote:
No, he is obviously disturbed.
Surprised as well, because for all of his deductions, he completelly overlooked the detail of John having a weapon on him.
I agree with you there! Sherlock looks actually shocked and surpised by John's addiction to violence. Also, notice when Billy mentions how his arm got sprain, saying some addict looking for his next fix, Sherlock was shocked there as well. His face was like: John? You did that?

Yes, Sherlock´s words about an "addict needing a fix" were very obviously pointed at John.
And John looked guilty for a moment there.He knew he was caught doing something he was not really proud of.

besleybean · May 24, 2014 10:20 pm

I think he's beginning to enbrace what he is.

tonnaree · May 25, 2014 4:50 am

nakahara wrote:
The moment when CAM´s bodyguards are checking them out and they pull that metal thingy out of John´s trousers Sherlock looks genuinely shocked. His look is all like "you are kidding me...."

I thought that was more of "damn that's hot" look.

oooops, sorry, wrong thread.