BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)

SusiGo · May 14, 2014 7:15 am

How about a little science for a change?

http://livelongand-sherlock.tumblr.com/post/84566403562/as-the-writers-of-sherlock-so-kindly-told-us-in

nakahara · May 14, 2014 7:22 am

SusiGo wrote:
How about a little science for a change?

http://livelongand-sherlock.tumblr.com/post/84566403562/as-the-writers-of-sherlock-so-kindly-told-us-in

Very good, I love this scientific approach to Johnlock!

Mattlocked · May 14, 2014 7:25 am

Oh, the lipstick and the moustache... I never noticed that.

SusiGo · May 14, 2014 7:33 am

I really do not understand how one can dismiss all this (and there is so much more) as coincidence or having no deeper meaning.

(I am not very brilliant at observing those things but the moustache/lipstick thing was one of the parallels I got very soon)

Last edited by SusiGo (May 14, 2014 7:35 am)

nakahara · May 14, 2014 7:37 am

Exactly - when I see how many subtle references to canon, canonical illustrations and other such things are hidden in the series and how carefuly constructed those stories really are, I doubt those Johnlock insinuations are just coincidences either.

SusiGo · May 14, 2014 7:43 am

Exactly. I am sure that here they apply the same care and creativeness they use for all other elements of the show. Why should this of all things be different?

Lue4028 · May 14, 2014 7:54 am

So question about analyzing body language..which johnlock fans do a lot, like in that link. Aren't the actors intentionally doing it? Like martin intentionally did that infamous lick of the lips so he would know what he meant by it. So to get to the truth of whether it's coincidence or not, we would just have to look at his opinion on johnlock...?

Last edited by Lue4028 (May 14, 2014 7:55 am)

SusiGo · May 14, 2014 8:03 am

Well, knowing that Martin is a brilliant actor I am sure that it is intentional.

As for the actors' opinions: if you look at what the whole team has been saying since the start of the show in 2010 you will see how their statements and opinions have changed evolved again and again. Especially Moffat and Gatiss are notorious for telling lies to keep the audience on their toes and the excitement high (just think of Moriarty's death).

The success of the show depends on not knowing what happens in the next series and where they are going - with the plot, with emotions, with the development of characters. Just let us assume that they want them to end in a love/sexual relationship one day. Do you really think Martin or anyone else would tell us about it in advance?

SolarSystem · May 14, 2014 8:07 am

Then again, maybe Martin and the other actors don't even know (for sure) in advance themselves. Just think about Amanda and that they didn't tell her what would happen with Mary in HLV while they were still working on the first two episodes.
I guess everything is possible. And I believe that Martin and Benedict of all people realised very soon that they do have that chemistry which could easily lead to.... more. Especially when it comes to the way in which they very often look at each other (eye sex!)... this might just have happened the first few times, but after a while... come on!

Last edited by SolarSystem (May 14, 2014 8:08 am)

SusiGo · May 14, 2014 8:18 am

You are right, Solar. I do not think that the actors know exactly where the show is going (as in the case of Mary).
In all this we should not forget the pilot. There the whole imagery was much more explicit with regard to a possible gay attraction between them.

And for the record - here is a quote from Martin:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/8531671/Sherlock-is-the-gayest-story-in-the-history-of-television-says-Martin-Freeman.html

Last edited by SusiGo (May 14, 2014 8:18 am)

SolarSystem · May 14, 2014 8:39 am

I guess you know by now that I tend to go with what I see on screen, and not so much with what people who are involved with the show have to say about it. What ends up on the screen is crucial, I don't need anybody to tell me what it is I'm seeing. In this case of course... you just have to love Martin, right?

And you're right, Susi, in the Pilot things were even more explicit. Still, the boys at Angelo's in ASiP... that just felt like a date. The lighting, the atmosphere, the way they look at each other, everything..

nakahara · May 14, 2014 8:46 am

Even if some body language of the actors can be their improvisation, other moments are carefully done in a very precise way:

Some examples:

BBC Sherlock sprawled in a chair:

Canonical Sherlock sprawled in a chair:

BBC Sherlock explaining things to John:

Canonical Sherlock explaining things to John:

If the authors are this precise with minor things you probably miss while you are watching the episode, I don´t believe that numerous Johnlock moments and references are just coincidence. They are purposefully there.

tonnaree · May 14, 2014 11:50 am

I believe that deep in his diabolical black heart Moffat ships it. He just has too much fun getting our knickers in a twist!

ancientsgate · May 14, 2014 11:52 am

SusiGo wrote:
Exactly. I am sure that here they apply the same care and creativeness they use for all other elements of the show. Why should this of all things be different?

Oh, I don't think it is different. I think everything, as you say, that the writers and showrunners include in each ep, every line of dialogue, every directorial decision, every acting nuance, is deliberate. They've done this on purpose, this intense bromance, probably because TPTB and the actors themselves find it intriguing, the fans have certainly climbed on the Johnlock bandwagon, and it's all good. I do feel a bit used and abused by all of them sometimes, lol, as I said in a post a couple of days ago, as though I were a puppet on strings (my poor heart!) but I do okay, just by reminding myself that this is supposed to be fun, and it's all just a piece of fiction, as it has been since ACD created these characters. Like, duh.

Last edited by ancientsgate (May 14, 2014 11:53 am)

SolarSystem · May 15, 2014 7:19 am

Oh yes, and this is what it comes down to in the end: if one of them were a woman, everything would be so obvious. Right? Right.

http://painlock.tumblr.com/post/85658492753/ok-so-imagine-a-man-sacrificed-his-career-because

Last edited by SolarSystem (May 15, 2014 7:24 am)

SusiGo · May 15, 2014 7:21 am

Yes. Very convincing. In a man and woman it would be love, in two men it is bromance (you know, I have come to hate that word by now).

And how about this lovely one here?

http://findawaytoshine.tumblr.com/post/85267947412

Last edited by SusiGo (May 15, 2014 7:23 am)

SolarSystem · May 15, 2014 7:28 am

This lovely one there, Susi, is what I call a Johnlock overdose. I could stare at that compilation for hours, and some of those moments practically shout "It's love! It's love!" right into my face. But that's probably just me. I'm seeing things, imagining things... I see dead people, stuff like that...

And yes... 'brooooomance'....

Last edited by SolarSystem (May 15, 2014 7:34 am)

gently69 · May 15, 2014 7:29 am

SolarSystem wrote:
Oh yes, and this is what it comes down to in the end: if one of them were a woman, everything would be so obvious. Right? Right.

http://painlock.tumblr.com/post/85658492753/ok-so-imagine-a-man-sacrificed-his-career-because

Also I am convinced by this, Solar. Btw the fan fic you suggested was a really good start.

And the link you posted, Susi ... that really is a load of ... whatever.

SolarSystem · May 15, 2014 7:38 am

I think it probably gets the most obvious when you're reminding yourself that with a man and a woman we wouldn't even have these kind of discussions most of the time. Because everyone would see it, because everyone is used to it - but lots of people aren't used to two men in the exact same situations, so it just can't be.

And I'm glad to hear about that fic... maybe you should try and find some more by the same author, I think she has written some more fic which is mainly fluff.

nakahara · May 15, 2014 8:31 am

SolarSystem wrote:
Oh yes, and this is what it comes down to in the end: if one of them were a woman, everything would be so obvious. Right? Right.

http://painlock.tumblr.com/post/85658492753/ok-so-imagine-a-man-sacrificed-his-career-because

Wow, they perfectly nailed it!