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I think it's the most beautiful thing in the world.
Nothig romantic about it
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Ah, well it would depend on how "romantic" is defined. It is a very vague term, but I consider it to mean "heartfelt" or "sentimental". I use it though, because I think J and S's relationship is just as strong as conventional sexual romantic relationships, and similar to their emotionally romantic aspects.
My criteria for something to be romantic is that the relationship has maximal amounts of selfess and self-sacraficing love, that one person's unique, ultimate vulnerablility and weakness is the other, and that there's something about their interaction that speaks to the humanity in all people. I think child and parent relationships can be romantic. Sibling relationships like in Rainman can be romantic. I think dog and owner relationships can be romantic. J and S's relationship is so appealing to the human heart, not only does it qualify as romantic, I think it's a prime example. ^^ One of the best.
Beautiful is a accurate word but it's not satisfactorily specific to me. Beauty can be superficial after all. It can mean a lot of things.
Last edited by Lue4028 (April 18, 2014 2:50 pm)
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Lue4028 wrote:
Ah, well it would depend on how "romantic" is defined. It is a very vague term, but I consider it to mean "heartfelt" or "sentimental". I use it though, because I think J and S's relationship is just as strong as conventional sexual romantic relationships, and similar to their emotionally romantic aspects.
My criteria for something to be romantic is that the relationship has maximal amounts of selfess and self-sacraficing love, that one person's unique, ultimate vulnerablility and weakness is the other, and that there's something about their interaction that speaks to the humanity in all people. I think child and parent relationships can be romantic. Sibling relationships like in Rainman can be romantic. I think dog and owner relationships can be romantic. J and S's relationship is so appealing to the human heart, not only does it qualify as romantic, I think it's a prime example. ^^ One of the best.
Beautiful is a accurate word but it's not satisfactorily specific to me. Beauty can be superficial after all. It can mean a lot of things.
This.
I prefer this more expansive definition of the human heart. Perhaps, another example of the writers' intent to subvert expectations of our limitied categories.
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Don't think we've had this on this board, or if we did, it's several pages back.
Relevant on the subject of sexuality, too!
Ian's words of wisdom:
a_S @CHIMPSINSOCKS Yes, I find I learn more and more about the subculture as time goes on! To be fair, I didn't say anyone’s fantasies were wrong. People are very welcome to fantasise about whatever they like. No one is judging that - well not me anyway. I was querying the extent to which that fantasy, for some at least, seems to have developed into a belief, or in certain cases insistent demands, that it should become reality and appear in the show itself.
“Sherlock” itself plays with the idea that society is so unused to any kind of male friendship or intimacy that those around Sherlock and John often assume their relationship can only be motivated by sexual attraction. As Amanda says, why can’t their love for each other be friendship? Why impose a gay dynamic on two characters who, as clearly as we can tell, identify respectively as heterosexual and asexual?
Personally speaking, I’d love to see more well-rounded gay characters and well-written gay relationships depicted in drama, but that’s another story – and not this one, I’m afraid.
As you say, it's an interesting phenomenon.
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The co-dependency, the depth and length of mourning, the small jealousies, and the sacrifices made for each other that are often depicted, hinted at, or expressed openly in this show seems to place their relationship a step or two above 'friendship'. Just saying........
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Really?
Sounds like BFFs to me.
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And the difference is, you are right and others are not?
Last edited by Harriet (April 18, 2014 6:33 pm)
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I see what you mean. Friendship is a very casual word.. it shys in comparison to the extraordinary love between Sherlock and John. I think maybe our problem is that again we're missing good vocabulary for what John and Sherlock are cuz we match love with sex and vice versa. Just because they're more than friends doesn't mean they're attracted to each other in that way tho. If I was a kid and didn't know the implication of the term, I would call them lovers. Soulmates might be better.
Sherlock refers to himself as John's "commander" and to John as his "doctor". I guess those two terms got redefined.. I'm not sure what you would call the relationship between a doctor and a commander tho.. *scratch head* patient-doctor.. military?
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Isn't this what's so cool about this show? Their relationship seems to defy explanation or an adequate word that defines it precisely. Many of the fan fics struggle to grasp what "this relationship" is exactly.
And it's fun reading everyone's take on the situation. I like reading the explicit fan fic stuff that has them on a journey toward a physical relationship - but I also love the stuff that's just about the love and committment and devotion without any s.e.x.
I'm with you Lue4028 when you say "the extraordinary love" because that's just the way I see it - extraordinary. And it never fails to fascinate me.
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It's beautiful to behold.
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Just found this Steven Moffat quote which leaves everything open to speculation:
Moffat: Is Sherlock Holmes a virgin or not? You can’t ever establish it. Oddly enough, they did the same in [1970 Billy Wilder film The Private Life Of Sherlock Holmes]. They had a scene which established that he had done the deed, but they cut it. Same thing. We just don’t know. I personally can’t imagine that he is, but you can’t ever confirm it.
(source: )
Last edited by SusiGo (April 23, 2014 6:31 pm)
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Oh that's an oldie...doesn't really move us on much!
I've always been on the ' virgin' team...but never knew one way or another...only from what Mycroft said and I think he woul know!
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SusiGo wrote:
Just found this Steven Moffat quote which leaves everything open to speculation:
Moffat: Is Sherlock Holmes a virgin or not? You can’t ever establish it. Oddly enough, they did the same in [1970 Billy Wilder film The Private Life Of Sherlock Holmes]. They had a scene which established that he had done the deed, but they cut it. Same thing. We just don’t know. I personally can’t imagine that he is, but you can’t ever confirm it.
(source: )
And I'm convinced after all evidence given that they decided to make Sherlock gay without everybody noticing it right away
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But there is no evidence.
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besleybean wrote:
But there is no evidence.
Oh, there isn't?
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Well Sherlock never mentions it and we never see him in any relationship.
Why should we think he feels that way?
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Susi, I think Moffat has a point in here.
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Yes, he might. And speculating is so much fun. And collecting evidence. Reminds me a bit of Sherlock himself.
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I rather think Sherlock is beyond any of us and he deals only in facts.
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That means he must be asexual. (?)