BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Johnlock: The Official Debate

ancientsgate · April 18, 2014 10:21 pm

SusiGo wrote:
No. They do a very good job because they allow different interpretations. And so should we.

*whine*
But I don't want to allow for a different interpretation!
*yes, I'll have crackers and cheese with that whine, TYVM*

SusiGo · April 18, 2014 10:22 pm

I was just trying to be tolerant, ancientsgate.
You know my views, don't you?

ancientsgate · April 18, 2014 10:24 pm

besleybean wrote:
It's all fine...
Are you really suggesting these 2 are in a sexual relationship?

No, I don't think so. I think the writers have skirted the issue just enough to toe the line to the side of plantonic brotherly love. I haven't seen a glimmer to suggest that they've actually done the deed or that John has ever really even seriously considered it. And Sherlock is too busy being Sherlock, you know, to press the idea, even if he could allow himself to fully form it enough to speak it and act on it.

ancientsgate · April 18, 2014 10:25 pm

SusiGo wrote:
I was just trying to be tolerant, ancientsgate.
You know my views, don't you?

*still whining*
But I don't want to be tolerant...
*passes the cheese and crackers*

Just sharing a smile with ya; yes, I do know your views.

ancientsgate · April 18, 2014 10:27 pm

Oh, and I want to add that I love this thread. Entirely. *This* is my fave Sherlock subject. heh

besleybean · April 18, 2014 10:28 pm

And in that, you are by no means alone.

SusiGo · April 18, 2014 10:30 pm

Thanks for the cheese and crackers, ancientsgate. And now for a nice Johnlock fanfic in a bathtub overlooking NYC.

ancientsgate · April 18, 2014 10:30 pm

besleybean wrote:
And in that, you are by no means alone.

Wheeee!

besleybean · April 18, 2014 10:32 pm

Well, I didn't name names...
But good to have company, I guess.

ancientsgate · April 18, 2014 10:32 pm

SusiGo wrote:
Thanks for the cheese and crackers, ancientsgate. And now for a nice Johnlock fanfic in a bathtub overlooking NYC.

*is envious* You having a good trip? I hope you're not too cold, and that all the New Yorkers are being friendly.

JNinSoCal · April 18, 2014 11:45 pm

Lue4028 wrote:
No way dude! That's when I felt like something was weird. What someone refered to as "partnerlook". I complained about it but it's supposed to be normal in the UK. >_>

So not normal...
Maybe the weird emphasis on Sherlock+John instead of John+Mary is because of the Sherlock POV.. maybe the perspective is scewed. God this show is ambiguous.

I saw a page of John and Sherlock wedding photos on line recently. A "Wedding Album" comprised of production stills, screencaps and edits---the cutest photo included S & J with Lestrade and Archie.

Lue4028 · April 19, 2014 12:14 am

BB do you know any men who are as emotional with each other as Sherlock and John? If your definition of a romantic relationship is something that can only exist between people who are sexually attracted to each other, then I agree, J and S aren't romantic in that sense. But I'm beginning to realize the romance - the intellectual/emotional relationship (everything besides the sex) - found between two people who are a couple doesn't have to be associated with sex and visa versa, Completely seperate parts of the human brain. Tolerance = mature. It's good for u^^

SusiGo · April 19, 2014 12:26 am

ancientsgate wrote:
SusiGo wrote:
Thanks for the cheese and crackers, ancientsgate. And now for a nice Johnlock fanfic in a bathtub overlooking NYC.
*is envious* You having a good trip? I hope you're not too cold, and that all the New Yorkers are being friendly.

Thank you, it's awesome. Could be a bit warmer though. ;-)
Most New Yorkers are friendly if you exclude Immigration and Border Control at the airport.
;-)

SherlocklivesinOH · April 19, 2014 12:30 am

ancientsgate wrote:
SusiGo wrote:
I did not really follow the whole Amanda thing but I think it is ridiculous to mix up real persons and the characters they play. Quite sad.
There was a spat of mean!fans shoving Johnlock into Ben and Martin's faces at certian Q&A sessions a few months ago. It got pretty ugly, I guess. Poor guys, they dealt with it very gracefully, from all accounts. Some fans really need to take a chill pill and get over themselves. Not sure why this is happening in this fandom... I've been around fandoms since I was like 12, and I've never seen this lack of respect, desire to shock, and pressing an uncomfortable issue where it should never be pressed before. Makes me sad.

The author of "Decoding the Subtext," which is one of my favorite blogs about Johnlock in canon, says that when she first wrote it, around 2007 or so, she was "blacklisted by mainstream Sherlockian societies," and Sherlockians "recoiled in horror" from the idea of the two being a couple.(A lot of old-time Baker Street Irregular types are convinced canon-Holmes had an affair with his Irene, many of them claim it was during the Hiatus.)

Now, seven years later, it seems the pro-Johnlockers are, perhaps not in the majority, but just as vocal.

LoveIsAViciousMotivator · April 19, 2014 1:31 am

SusiGo wrote:
It is called "heteronormative view", as I have learned.

Just because someone doesn't ship Sherlock and John together doesn't mean they see in the show in a "heteronormative view". They may ship another man with Sherlock or ship another M/M or F/F couple. There are people out there who have legitmate reasons to not ship these two together.

You may not meant this in your post, but I just wanted to be clear.

SherlocklivesinOH wrote:
Now, seven years later, it seems the pro-Johnlockers are, perhaps not in the majority, but just as vocal.

I think because of BBC Sherlock, Johnlock has become the majority of the ship that people ship and the most vocal as if you search through fanfictions and fanart, most are about Sherlock and John's relationship.

Last edited by LoveIsAViciousMotivator (April 19, 2014 2:09 am)

ancientsgate · April 19, 2014 1:32 am

SusiGo wrote:
Thank you, it's awesome. Could be a bit warmer though. ;-)
Most New Yorkers are friendly if you exclude Immigration and Border Control at the airport.
;-)

I haven't flown or left the country recently, but a friend was telling me about 2 weeks ago about the 3 hour customs and security ordeal she had last month, while leaving the US, getting into Israel, leaving Israel, and arriving home again. We asked for protection after 9/11, and now we're getting it, but there is a cost, both real and imagined, for sure.

SusiGo · April 19, 2014 2:09 am

Of course I see the necessity for security measures. But the military tone in which the passengers were ordered about required getting used to.

@LoveIsAViciousMotivator: sorry if I used a term that may be a bit too extreme the present case. I was referring to the "straight-guys-only-glasses". But to me it definitely seems that you do not have to explain a heterosexual attraction/relationship while having to provide endless proof for a possible attraction/love between two men. Which seems like a sort of double standard to me.

LoveIsAViciousMotivator · April 19, 2014 2:13 am

SusiGo wrote:
@LoveIsAViciousMotivator: sorry if I used a term that may be a bit too extreme the present case. I was referring to the "straight-guys-only-glasses". But to me it definitely seems that you do not have to explain a heterosexual attraction/relationship while having to provide endless proof for a possible attraction/love between two men. Which seems like a sort of double standard to me.

Oh, trust me, I see the double standard and I agree.

I always feel Blah! when people seem to believe a man and a woman can't just be friends and they must be sleeping together! Bah!

I just hope you don't think that when someone only sees Sherlock and John as friends, that they are only thinking in such a way. Like I said before, people have some different reasons for not shipping them together.

Last edited by LoveIsAViciousMotivator (April 19, 2014 2:19 am)

ancientsgate · April 19, 2014 2:18 am

SusiGo wrote:
Of course I see the necessity for security measures. But the military tone in which the passengers were ordered about required getting used to.

We Americans as a people have lost our sense of humor about people coming into our country and screwing with us, and I guess that's come out in the attitude you saw with the TSA and customs agents. Unfortunately, that hardass bearing is spread over everyone, no matter their age or gender or country of origin. Did the person who gave you back your passport say, "Welcome to the United States," with at least a hint of a smile?

SusiGo · April 19, 2014 2:23 am

The guy who took our fingerprints and the photos and checked the passports was quite nice but he did not welcome us. And the men and women who organised the queues were a bit on the rude side.

(just realising that this is not really about Johnlock )