Lue4028 wrote:

Makes me wonder why we need to put him in a sexual catagory... is it really that important?
By labeling John, I think we're just trying to understand what he is to Sherlock.. to understand the show Sherlock. We want to do this so we can feel secure about their relationship. I don't think throwing our hands up and admitting we've been challenged is a satisfactory enough answer, at least for me. Is this thing between John and sherlock real or a trick of the light? What is the nature of it? I really care to know about the the truth behind that question.. and I'm sure there must be one. There must be some definition to their relationship if it's sustaining the entire show and the key to its popularity. 

When I think about this, I guess that I just do not need to define their relationship---I am both entertained and touched by their story.  I see this journey---the story of Sherlock and John---as a work of art in progress.  The creative people involved are devoting years of their lives to slowly explore Sherlock's heart.

I believe they are showing us a new story---a revolutionary story.  The writers have been telling us all along that "ordinary is boring";  why would these writers and actors want to re-tell the ordinary story of Holmes and Watson.  I believe that True Love between Sherlock and John has always been the end game, that the actors have known from the beginning and wanted to participate in a ground-breaking enterprise.

Even Sherlock tells us, "You see, but you do not observe!"
 

So then there is an answer to see/observe- the end game- true love? *scratches head* 
Are you saying their love is revolutionary and defies all modern terms that attempt to define it?
I guess that makes sense. I've often found that our vocabulary is too full of preconceptions to talk about John and Sherlock's relationship. Even the term "love" is vague.. and the weird distiction between loving and being in love..
Wait.. so that means it can be understood! : D We just need to evolve better terminology and acknowlege John and Shelock as a new kind of relationship without precedent.

Last edited by Lue4028 (April 17, 2014 12:05 am)

JNinSoCal wrote:

I think it would be revolutionary, both in the realm of the re-telling of Sherlock Holmes tales, but also as a world-wide, high-profile TV series. 

Spending many years, with this stellar cast, telling the unfolding story of two men in love would be pretty revolutionary.

 
Yes again. :-)

True, we are made to believe that he is in love with his wife. But we get little proof of this love, in either direction. And a lot of proof Sherlock's love. 

Just saying, reproducing is not proof of love.   I've seen plenty of examples in real life.

Goog point, tonnaree.

BB, I am just saying that for me the relationship between John ans Mary is not half as moving and beautiful as that between John and Sherlock. Just my opinion. But I guess I am not alone in this.

besleybean wrote:

But all I'm seeing, is people saying how they don't seem to be in love.
But nobody is giving any example of how we would see 2 people who ARE in love!

The 'problem' might be that "Sherlock" is not the right show to show us two people who are in love in detail.
As you say, with John and Mary we see a couple that at the end of TSoT is newly married and expecting their first child. In TEH we see a couple that hasn't been together for a long period of time, maybe six months, maybe a year or a little longer. Of course not all couples are the same, but I'd expect to see more euphoria, more hugging and kissing (yes, indeed!) or at least I'd like to feel a certain romantic tension between the two of them - a tension I don't feel at all. But a tension that I do indeed feel between Sherlock and John.
John and Mary marry and expect a child. Fine. I hear it and I see it, but I'm not feeling it.
But I suppose this rather belongs into the Johnlock-Thread.

 

Last edited by SolarSystem (April 17, 2014 3:04 pm)

Whatevs! As long as the conversation is interesting right?
It's true I suppose.. John and Mary's relationship isn't as romanticly protrayed... yet they get married. Even if the focus of the show is Sherlock, they didn't put any time into developing the chemistry between John and Mary compared to the effort they put into John and Sherlock. It seems a little strange.. shows usually take advantage of romantic/sexual opportunites to grab the audience. I don't think they wanted to make J and M a strongly backed relationship.

Actually, I think the thing is that they didn't even have to put a lot of effort into developing the chemistry between John and Sherlock, because the chemistry just was there - right from the start, right in the very first moment Sherlock laid eyes on John. One day later they were running through the streets of London together and it just felt as if it had to be.
That's not to say that there is no chemistry between John and Mary (or even Martin and Amanda, for that matter), there certainly is... but it's a different kind of chemistry, and this chemistry doesn't really work for me.

Mr and Mrs Sociopath.