I think the writers enjoyed their opportunity to explore the fluidity of relationships. John says he's not gay and claims they aren't a couple. Irene says he might not be gay but yes they are a couple. They both doubt Sherlock can have romantic feelings yet here he is having them for Irene, who apparently reciprocates them despite being gay herself. I think the writers were making a point about how people think labels are set in stone when in reality they aren't. I don't think we're supposed to know whether any of them are gay or not or whether they have romantic/sexual feelings for each other or not as it is deliberately unclarrified. But I also think the characters themselves are just as in the dark about it all, thanks to the writers. I think the writers are just having fun keeping it murky and keeping the possibilities out there I know in many interviews they have mentioned that they've enjoyed the fact that having the show in the present day has afforded them the opportunity to have the possibility of gay characters/gay main characters and not have it be a big deal. To make a long story short lol, I don't think anyone (writers and characters included) are supposed to really understand the relationship between Sherlock and John, which kind of makes the relationship seem more unique and therefore more addictively intriguing

Last edited by VivaCohen (June 26, 2012 3:41 pm)

You can ship any couple. I've never heard the term "slasher" but I guess it'd mean someone who ships a slash couple. I'm not sure if you can ship a non-romantic relationship... maybe that'd be a FriendShipper?

Anyway... I'm not a JohnLock shipper per se, but I've read some stories and found them sweet. My own poison tends to be either het ships or stories without romantic connotations. So it's not universal that someone has their OTP but dabbles in others (and enjoys any and all ship-related bones tossed out by the writers).

That look Lestrade gave Molly at the party, for example. Adorable.

KeepersPrice wrote:

So everyone, I'm still a little confused about the term "shipper".  Ancientsgate, you seem to consider shipping to be M/F relationship only - unless I have misunderstood you. But I hear so many fans say they "ship" John and Sherlock - which I always took to mean they like thinking about and seeing John and Sherlock in a relationship.  Now I'm thinking maybe that's not the meaning (?).  Maybe it really means the fan (herself) is in love with one or both of the characters.  Or does it mean the fan envisions a loving relationship between the two characters but nothing extending to the physical realm. Arrrgh....sorry to be so dense about this but I really want to get the terms straight. 

Well, if "shipping" does mean the fan likes John and Sherlock in a loving relationship then I'm going to label myself here and now.  I'm a robust shipper with just a hint of slash.  Sounds like a bottle of wine doesn't it?   

Sorry for the confusion. In my last two fandoms (one of which was huge and the other of which was smaller but extremely intense), slash always meant F/F or M/M, and ship was always M/F. In this fandom, they're using the shippy word for slash for some reason. Not sure how they differentiate between Sherlock/John (which to me is slash only) or Sherlock/Molly or Sherlock/Irene or for that matter Sherlock/Mrs. Hudson (laughing). How can any or all of that be labeled as ship?

IMO you can't be a robust shipper with only a hint of slash, not if you want Sherlock/John together romantically. In this fandom, that makes you a robust shipper, with no slash caveat. Or in my little mind, you're a robust slasher.

Oh, Lord. I think I'm confusing you even more!

imane nikko wrote:

Weird... I've never seen the ship/slash differentiation. Slash is the gay subset of ship in all the fandoms I've dabbled in. Which fandoms are you talking about, just out of curiosity?

Stargate SG-1, which was HUGE. Thousands and thousands of fan fics came out of that. Slash was always slash, either M/M or F/F. Ship was always M/F. They actually had a third fan fic category that was used extensively--  gen, meaning general, or a story totally without any slash or ship. People are still writing in that fandom, even though the show has been off the air for like 3 or 4 years.

My other fan fic fandom was Brokeback Mountain, a smaller but actually even more intense fandom, where of course most everything was slash-- Jack Twist and Ennis DelMar, the "gay cowboys".

Both of those other fandoms were American-based, whereas I suppose the Sherlock thing mostly grew up out of a UK fan base. Maybe that's why the ship vs. slash thing here. No idea.

But anyway, I'm not out to change anyone's mind. Just sharing what my own mindset is.

I'm thinking that perhaps the terms slash and ship are generational.  By which I mean that fans who are older are more familiar with slash and fans who trend younger are more used to ship.  Does that seem likely to you all?

I, personally, never heard ship before joining this message board.  The other fandom I'm involved in, Alias Smith and Jones, which is small but includes people from both the US and UK, has never used ship to refer to relationships.  If it's not M/M or F/F, then it's labeled het or gen.  Almost all the people involved there are over 45 years old.

Like KeepersPrice, I'd like to know the correct way(s) to use the terms ship or shipperso this discussion is very enlightening for me.

Wikipedia has a nice rundown of the term "ship" (and related words like slash and yaoi).

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shipping_(fandom)#section_3

LOL!  So glad to see I'm not the only confused fangirl out there .  Well maybe it's time to do away with the labels and just enjoy our two favorite characters in whatever way we want to imagine them and know that it's all fine - ship, slash, Johnlock, bromance, best friends, whatever!

So I have a question.  I just re-watched Great Game which I hadn't seen in a while.  I'd forgotten about John's overnight at Sarah's where he slept on the couch - and not very comfortably at that - after his little "domestic" with Sherlock.  Sarah said he should have slept on the "lilo" -  which took me a while to figure out was an air mattress   Then she said maybe next time he should camp out at the foot of her bed to which he said hopefully, "And the time after that?"  She just smiled at him in a non-committal way.  Certainly no displays of affection or signs of encouragement from her.  Do you think it's because their relationship is too new and hasn't reached the sleeping together stage or is she already very aware that John's heart and mind are back at Baker Street and he's just too stupid to see it yet? I think the latter. Sarah had a very intuitive, knowing female look on her face during that scene.  She's never going to go further with John because she's not even going to try and compete. She already knows it's hopeless. It makes me wonder about John's other girlfriends - the one with the spots, etc.  Were they as savvy as Sarah and finally Jeanette? We already know none of them seem to last very long.  It makes me wonder if he has ever made it into bed with any of them. My evil "Johnlock" heart says, "I hope not!"    Too funny....Sherlock, a virgin by choice/John, a "virgin" since the war not by choice.

Remember this is also a nod to the canon as John Watson was always portrayed as something of a 'ladies' man'. I would have thought that Sarah may well have been calling the shots and might well have decided not to sleep with John the first time he stayed over at hers, as this may well have been the first time he stayed over. I do think it is a bit of a shame we never see the demise of that relationship, but again that is not really seen, I am sure, as deeply relevant by the writers.

As for Jeanette's parting comment, she's just really p'd off with him. Remember Mycroft has practically ordered him to stay with Sherlock- and Mycroft mind is practically the British Government- and John is a man used to following orders. Sherlock summarises Jeanette as ' the boring one' and to be honest, his assessment seems pretty accurate from what we see. Certainly Sherlock can offer more excitement than Jeanette is ever likely to.

On a different note...I thought 'ship' meant 'worship'. Clueless, I am!

Davina wrote:

On a different note...I thought 'ship' meant 'worship'. Clueless, I am!

In that case, I ship Sherlock. All by his divine self.

Davina wrote:

Remember this is also a nod to the canon as John Watson was always portrayed as something of a 'ladies' man'. I would have thought that Sarah may well have been calling the shots and might well have decided not to sleep with John the first time he stayed over at hers, as this may well have been the first time he stayed over. As for Jeanette's parting comment, she's just really p'd off with him. Remember Mycroft has practically ordered him to stay with Sherlock- and Mycroft mind is practically the British Government- and John is a man used to following orders.

Ah yes, but how often do Moftiss play completely straight with the canon?  I think their twist on this one might be that John would very much like to be a ladies man; in fact, he's desperately trying to be a ladies man - bad romantic poetry and all.  It's just not working.  The women always catch on to something he hasn't figured out yet or else he's being thwarted by someone else, i.e. the guy in Hound interrupting his conversation with the therapist.  No chance with her after that  .  I love this little running joke in the show.  Sherlock doesn't care what people assume about him and John - it's of no concern to him and it rolls off his back.  But it concerns John because these assumptions keep getting in his way from scoring with the ladies. Quite funny really.

As for Jeanette, she is really pissed off at him - so much so that this is obviously not the first time he's ditched her for Sherlock.  John giving in to Mycroft's request at her expense on Christmas Eve was the final straw. Well so long honey....you are a boring teacher! Don't let the door hit you in the *ss