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March 23, 2014 10:03 am  #1


The restaurant scene

Just re watching (again!)

The restaurant scene is so interesting....he's clearly doped up to the hilt when he's there. How did he get there when he is clearly incapable? His judgement is massively impaired.

And moreover, he's trying to play a game with CAM while in this state. I don't think he knew what he was doing, but he was committed to it. And leading into the final showdown I think he knew he was doomed. His mannerisms through the whole thing, his judgement still clearly impaired. One wonders if he is still taking morphine for pain relief.

And going back to the timeframes, he offers Mycroft as a Christmas present. He wouldn't be offering him a Christmas gift if it wasn't close to the time. I would guess, therefore, that he was still in hospital close to the showdown - still in considerable pain and still hooked up on high morphine dosages.

Can't believe I'm still analysing this three months after it aired!


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I'm clueing for looks

 

March 23, 2014 10:35 am  #2


Re: The restaurant scene

I was wondering how he got to that restaurant. I presume it must be just across the road from the hospital (or he found a cab driver who doesn't ask to many questions regarding the drip stand and hospital gown lol). We don't tend to let people out with infusions of controlled drugs running but considering that an avrage smoker usually manages to slip by the nurses station as soon as reasonably mobile I don't think it would be hard for Sherlock to escape the premises (again).

The whole thing with CAM was one big misscalculation and I think morphine might have played a big part in it.
 

 

March 23, 2014 11:44 am  #3


Re: The restaurant scene

belis wrote:

The whole thing with CAM was one big misscalculation and I think morphine might have played a big part in it. 

 I am not sure about that morphine thing. We saw earlier S. being able to cut down morphine in the hospital, even if he was in a considerable pain. Why should he increase the dosage just in the moment he is talking to M.? I think it was deliberate as he wanted M. to believe he is a junkie.
 

 

March 23, 2014 12:05 pm  #4


Re: The restaurant scene

miriel68 wrote:

I am not sure about that morphine thing. We saw earlier S. being able to cut down morphine in the hospital, even if he was in a considerable pain. Why should he increase the dosage just in the moment he is talking to M.? I think it was deliberate as he wanted M. to believe he is a junkie.
 

I think the intention was to string CAM along. However how perfectly it was executed is another matter. Thing with morphine is that sometimes you don't fully realise just how much the stuff has clouded your judgement. Just like with alcohol you can be more intoxicated than you think you are. So maybe the fact that this whole plan was thought out by sherlock why under influence of morphine explains that it didn't exactly turn out as he is invisaged.
 

 

March 23, 2014 12:36 pm  #5


Re: The restaurant scene

Swanpride wrote:

I think Magnussen was simply better than him.

I think I agree. I'm not sure though if he was better becouse he was a better strategist, more intelligent, more experienced (older and wiser lol) or was it more to do with the fact that he had more of a single focus and wasn't distracted by loads of other things going on.

 

March 23, 2014 2:26 pm  #6


Re: The restaurant scene

It's just everything that makes me think it's genuine.
He's eating very slowly before CAM comes in. He's seriously slurring his words, after the glasses incident he's away with the fairies - and that's after he's turns down his supply.

I think CAM was ahead of the game - but only after Sherlock was shot. Even CAM didn't see that coming. He taunts Mary saying "are you going to kill us both ", but the look of horror on his face when she shoots him, that's genuine shock.

Up until that point I think Sherlock would have got what he wanted.


.............................................................

I'm clueing for looks

     Thread Starter
 

March 23, 2014 3:04 pm  #7


Re: The restaurant scene

clareiow wrote:

It's just everything that makes me think it's genuine.
He's eating very slowly before CAM comes in. He's seriously slurring his words, after the glasses incident he's away with the fairies - and that's after he's turns down his supply.

Does he turn it up or down? I can't remember if it's as clear in this scene as it was with Janine.
 

 

March 23, 2014 3:09 pm  #8


Re: The restaurant scene

Down.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

March 24, 2014 11:20 am  #9


Re: The restaurant scene

Hm, I thought here he turns it up to demonstrate CAM how addictive he is?

 

March 24, 2014 11:38 am  #10


Re: The restaurant scene

I suppose it would make sence for him to turn it down to help him think more clearly whilst he talks to CAM. Ragradless of him turning it up or down it would still attract CAM's attention to it and create an impression that it may be a pressure point.

The effects of change in infusion rate aren't instantaneous. If we assume that it's morphine the peak effect is reached in 10 -15 minutes. If he started feeling a bit to fuzzy and away with the faries whilst talking to CAM and reduced the infusion rate to counteract that it would take a little while for it to make a difference. Also if a starting dose is quite high it will take a while for the effects to wear off even if you drop infusion rate all the way to zero as it needs to make its way out of the system
 

 

March 24, 2014 11:49 am  #11


Re: The restaurant scene

I must admit, I was a bit confused with the scene at first, because it seemed so odd that Sherlock was there in the restaurant and not in hospital. At first I thought it wasn't real, if you know what I mean...like a dream...

But I get it now. And it's a great scene.


 

April 4, 2014 2:10 pm  #12


Re: The restaurant scene

Personally, I think Sherlock was just acting ill in this scene and he was fully healed at the time. His fiddling with the morphine was probably just an act to persuade CAM that he is addicted to painkillers and thus easier to cheat. The fact that they were meeting at Speedy′s seems to confirm this: Sherlock is probably no more in the hospital, so he just came to the restaurant from upstairs, from his flat at 221B.
 
I find it suspicious how Sherlock is seemingly out of his wits when playing with CAM′s spectacles, yet he is lucid and very cunning and perceptive when offering „deal with the devil“ to CAM just a few minutes later. And if this scene really takes place shortly before Christmas, as it seems to (since I doubt CAM and Sherlock spoke about Mycroft′s notebook in august and Sherlock delivered it to CAM only after so many months, in december), it′s one more reason for suspicion: Sherlock was shot in early summer, there′s no way he still needs medication in winter.
 
Because CAM has all the blackmail information in his hands and guards it well in his Appledore „fortress“, he currently holds all the aces of this game and Sherlock needs to find some way to „break throught the walls“. He paints himself as gullible and weak so that he can be invited into the lair of his opponent. I think he knows quite well what he′s doing and he succeeds with this plan - it′s just unfortunate that CAM′s blackmail information is then revealed to exist just inside CAM′s head. Still, I cannot shake the slight feeling that Sherlock had to reckon with this possibility either – after he realised CAM′s spectacles are really just ordinary spectacles, he had to know about CAM′s true nature.     
 


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

April 4, 2014 2:29 pm  #13


Re: The restaurant scene

Are you sure this is Speedy's? 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

April 4, 2014 3:27 pm  #14


Re: The restaurant scene

I don't think that's Speedy's. When John and Mycroft meet there at the end of ASiB, it looks pretty different to the restaurant where Sherlock and CAM meet. Smaller. Not so many tables. Different interior.

On a completely different note, when I watched the episode for the first time, I wasn't quite sure if this scene was actually happening, because it felt so very much like a dream sequence to me.


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

April 4, 2014 3:30 pm  #15


Re: The restaurant scene

nakahara wrote:

And if this scene really takes place shortly before Christmas, as it seems to (since I doubt CAM and Sherlock spoke about Mycroft′s notebook in august and Sherlock delivered it to CAM only after so many months, in december), it′s one more reason for suspicion: Sherlock was shot in early summer, there′s no way he still needs medication in winter.

Are we sure that this is told in the right chronological order? Lots of things in HLV aren't told chronologically, this might also be some sort of flashback?


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

April 4, 2014 3:56 pm  #16


Re: The restaurant scene

SolarSystem wrote:

I don't think that's Speedy's. When John and Mycroft meet there at the end of ASiB, it looks pretty different to the restaurant where Sherlock and CAM meet. Smaller. Not so many tables. Different interior.

On a completely different note, when I watched the episode for the first time, I wasn't quite sure if this scene was actually happening, because it felt so very much like a dream sequence to me.

Same with me. It really has a dreamlike quality. I mean, Sherlock eating pasta!! But seriously, the whole timeline is weird. We basically do not know anything about what happened from the moment the paramedics turned up at Baker Street up to Christmas. 
 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

April 4, 2014 4:06 pm  #17


Re: The restaurant scene

So either nothing worth telling happened, or... Series 4...


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

April 8, 2014 8:04 pm  #18


Re: The restaurant scene

SusiGo wrote:

SolarSystem wrote:

I don't think that's Speedy's. When John and Mycroft meet there at the end of ASiB, it looks pretty different to the restaurant where Sherlock and CAM meet. Smaller. Not so many tables. Different interior.

On a completely different note, when I watched the episode for the first time, I wasn't quite sure if this scene was actually happening, because it felt so very much like a dream sequence to me.

Same with me. It really has a dreamlike quality. I mean, Sherlock eating pasta!! But seriously, the whole timeline is weird. We basically do not know anything about what happened from the moment the paramedics turned up at Baker Street up to Christmas. 
 

You are right – there is something off, something not quite right about this scene.
 
And yet - Sherlock′s „deal with the devil“ really happened so at least a part of the scene has to be real. Still, it′s very confusing and it′s hard to tell, where and when does it take place.
 


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

April 8, 2014 8:15 pm  #19


Re: The restaurant scene

Possibly I'm missing something...it happens when he leaves the hospital, after Janine goes.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

April 9, 2014 5:15 am  #20


Re: The restaurant scene

Yes, that would make sense in terms of how the episode is told, but we don't know for sure when exactly it is supposed to take place. Right after Janine has left? Well, maybe.
Still, the scene feels a bit off. The dialogue is quite cryptical at times - the stuff about the canteen for example, it's probably designed to confuse the audience even more, because you ask yourself 'what is this, where is this taking place?'.


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

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