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March 13, 2014 3:27 pm  #21


Re: Will the kid die too?

Of course they may do that. But I honestly wonder how many fans they would lose over such a development. For many fans the Sherlock-John relationship is the main focus and the thing they love most about the show. And Mary does change the dynamics, even if she is in the background looking after the child (which I for the life of me cannot imagine her do). 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

March 13, 2014 3:39 pm  #22


Re: Will the kid die too?

SusiGo wrote:

Of course they may do that. But I honestly wonder how many fans they would lose over such a development. For many fans the Sherlock-John relationship is the main focus and the thing they love most about the show. And Mary does change the dynamics, even if she is in the background looking after the child (which I for the life of me cannot imagine her do). 

I must confess that I too have difficulty in seeing Mary content to sit at home looking after the baby, whilst John and Sherlock are off adventuring together. I think ACD knew very well that it was almost impossible to fit suburban domestic bliss for Watson into the framework of the stories; it takes attention away from the centrepiece, and that is never good...
 

 

March 13, 2014 4:04 pm  #23


Re: Will the kid die too?

Hm. Fine. They could just let her "vanish" slowly in the background taking care of the baby. That could be possible somehow. Maybe.
But John. He would never, ever again move into 221 B. And then it will be me who will look very sadly at his empty chair.

Though I really would like to see a bit more of Mary - I loved her in the Ep1 and 2 - I would prefer her being an episode in John's and Sherlock's life which will be closed completely one day.


__________________________________

"After all this time?" "Always."
Good bye, Lord Rickman of the Alan
 

March 13, 2014 4:55 pm  #24


Re: Will the kid die too?

Hm, not quite convinced...
She had too annoying moments for my likes in the whole relationship of the two leaders, or do I have to say now there are three of them?
But this is about Baby Watson: Being an MD for pediatrics and raising three kids I'm definetely not fond of killing kids on-screen. I really LOVE good crime stories but I avoid them like pest and cholera when it comes to killing children... I also see now evidence that the baby isn't John's. When I read Mofftiss-interviews my prediction for the moment would be both Mary and the kid will stay. I have to say that I would probably be one of the fans to quit. Just not my show, not the one I fell head over heels in love with.
I agree Amanda is popular, I just don't feel she had to ...well.. take over the show.
 


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Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

 

March 13, 2014 5:16 pm  #25


Re: Will the kid die too?

Ok, so mistyping never happens to you.
But back to baby Watson: so we agree it should actually not die, as it is too cruel a thing. And we have had enough of grieving John. So no possibility there. Second option that they ( and I can't seperate a toddler from its mother, sorry @swan) move in the background. Might be less of a " here they are! Like them or quit fandom!" choice, I actually could do with that, if it's done in a decent way.
It's just that I have a feeling under my skin from scanning interviews that neither Mofftiss nor Amanda want that.


------------------------------------------------------------

Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

 

March 13, 2014 5:36 pm  #26


Re: Will the kid die too?

@mrshouse, no reason to be harsh. I actually read your post wrong. No or now makes quite a difference here. I had to read it again after Swan asked.

@Swan. "In any case, I think if it works or not, it will depend entirely on how the writers do it. And I doubt that the fandom will figure that much in their plans..."
I fully agree with you and (God forbid!) I hope there will be NO influence from the fans.
I still trust in their "independence" and their ability to create a great show.
And I think it is a bit... "hasty" to say "I would quit the show and the fandom". Because it's all up to them and I trust them. 

Last edited by Mattlocked (March 13, 2014 5:37 pm)


__________________________________

"After all this time?" "Always."
Good bye, Lord Rickman of the Alan
 

March 13, 2014 5:52 pm  #27


Re: Will the kid die too?

I feel like they could honestly do anything with this show and make it work, somehow.


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March 13, 2014 5:53 pm  #28


Re: Will the kid die too?

Swanpride wrote:

Yeah, I admit the very idea that Moriarty might be alive makes me cringe....

Oh yeah, me too, although I love Andrew. But again: We don't know today if and how he will be back. (Although I noticed he lately talked about his role as Moriarty in the present time again..... Before he was like "I did...." and "it was...." Hm.)

Swanpride wrote:

...but that doesn't mean that it is impossible to sell in a way that I end up liking the twist nevertheless. Remember how unpopular Scott's rendition of Moriarty originally was, until season two rolled along and a lot of his critics got into his craziness?

No, I don't remember, as I did join the fandom kind of belated.  But it shows that we just don't know. But what else should we do while we are waiting?    As long as it stays fun, it's okay to speculate and think over several possibilities.
 


__________________________________

"After all this time?" "Always."
Good bye, Lord Rickman of the Alan
 

March 14, 2014 4:09 pm  #29


Re: Will the kid die too?

I think the infamous picture of a horned Mary..were cuckold horns.(wiki it )
I don't think the baby is Johns..and there is ambiguous evidence Mary may have cheated.
Maybe John wouldn't abandon it , if Mary died , but if the real father..or Marys real family were revealed he would have no choice or claim.
It's likely the marriage isn't even valid anyway.

Sorry...controversial i know.....

 

March 14, 2014 5:02 pm  #30


Re: Will the kid die too?

lil wrote:

I think the infamous picture of a horned Mary..were cuckold horns.(wiki it )
I don't think the baby is Johns..and there is ambiguous evidence Mary may have cheated.
Maybe John wouldn't abandon it , if Mary died , but if the real father..or Marys real family were revealed he would have no choice or claim.
It's likely the marriage isn't even valid anyway.

Sorry...controversial i know.....

 
The marriage isn't valid; that's a straightforward legal point. The rest is more complex, but I wonder if Moftiss are whispering 'Norbury' in our ears...

 

March 14, 2014 9:59 pm  #31


Re: Will the kid die too?

That makes me remember the scene with Mary's ex at the wedding, when she wanted to hug him but he rejected her.
Maybe he is the father.


__________________________________

"After all this time?" "Always."
Good bye, Lord Rickman of the Alan
 

March 14, 2014 10:32 pm  #32


Re: Will the kid die too?

Mattlocked wrote:

That makes me remember the scene with Mary's ex at the wedding, when she wanted to hug him but he rejected her.
Maybe he is the father.

I think the 'rejection' was more an expression of abject terror than anything else; Sherlock had put the fear of Dog into him...
 

 

March 14, 2014 10:46 pm  #33


Re: Will the kid die too?

Yeah, but that's boring.   


__________________________________

"After all this time?" "Always."
Good bye, Lord Rickman of the Alan
 

March 15, 2014 4:40 pm  #34


Re: Will the kid die too?

I think it would be easier if the Mary's pregnancy was a fake. I don't think they'll kill the baby or Mary (basically everybody is fed up with a grieving John, and anyway, Sherlock BBC is not Game of Thrones).

And please, no cheating Mary, it sounds so cheap... like a sitcom. Anyway in this case John would consider the child like his. I don't see him rejecting the child and saying "Well, the baby is not mine, get out Mary".

But Moftiss have to get rid of the baby. I don't want to see a Mary feeding a baby while John and Sherlock are happily arresting bad guys. It's acceptable in ACD because it was Victorian time, but in a modern TV show (about a modern Sherlock), it's just ridiculous. 

I'm kind of dubious with Mary's character, but I wait to see how Moftiss will deal with it. But in any case, please, no child! I don't want to watch Sherlock becoming a sort of The Big Bang Theory.

Last edited by Ozymandias (March 15, 2014 4:41 pm)


"Storming, enjoying, planning, loving, cautioning,
Backing and filling, appearing and disappearing,
I tread day and night such roads."
Walt Whitman

 
 

March 15, 2014 4:56 pm  #35


Re: Will the kid die too?

Hm, I don't know. It would be easy, but twisting? Interesting? Exciting for the show? And more intriguing: is it plausible? I don't really think so. Sherlock surprised everyone including the mother to be by deducing the signs of pregnancy she showed. It was not Mary following some dark implications and announcing pregnancy for her purposes. My wise prediction for now is they both stay. I just hope really decent in the background and we can restore balance to the galaxy again!


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Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

 

March 15, 2014 5:06 pm  #36


Re: Will the kid die too?

Why not? When Sherlock deduced the signs of pregnancy, Mary was just at the beginning of the pregnancy. They went on honeymoon, they came back, the Magnusson thing happens (when she shot Sherlock, her belly wasn't really swollen). Then comes the Watsons argument. We can suppose that John came back in 221B until Christmas, when he apparently decided to forget Mary. So he never see Mary naked with a huge belly. 

I don't say it would be a great plot, but it would be logical (and less heart-breaking/ordinary than a miscarriage and/or the death of Mary and/or the baby). I really don't think Moftiss are going to put a baby, it would entirely change the dynamic of the show. 
 


"Storming, enjoying, planning, loving, cautioning,
Backing and filling, appearing and disappearing,
I tread day and night such roads."
Walt Whitman

 
 

March 19, 2014 6:36 pm  #37


Re: Will the kid die too?

The show Dexter actually *did* work with Harrison, his baby son. 

Interesting: Dexter was a vigillante serial killer-- so, one of the good guys, sort of. His wife Rita, and the mother of his son,  is murdered by another serial killer Dexter has been hunting. It's retaliation.  

He finds another serial killer (by the next to last season) and in the very last season plans to run off taking Harrison, and the serial killer girlfriend, Hannah. 

Hannah does try to kill Dexter's sister--- and it's all about protecting her past, future, etc, .This causes a huge rift between Deb and Dexter.  In the end, Deb forgives Hannah, and even helps them.

I am seeing some similarities here; so, yes-- I think having mom and baby could work; but like Dexter, I don't think for long. Dexter indirectly gets his sister killed; and in his grief, fakes his own death, leaving Hannah and Harrison together in Venezuela, while he goes into exile. 

He has come to the realization that because he is who he is-- he will always endanger those he loves.

Perhaps Mary comes to beleive the same? 

Looking at that model you could have John, now alone because Mary has gone into exile-- still working with Sherlock: Maybe they go into business as partners, so John gives up his practice (canon) and they can actually afford a nanny. (Which was a plot device in Dexter, actually) 

This isn't the direction I'd opt for; but I do think it's plausible.

 

April 6, 2014 10:58 pm  #38


Re: Will the kid die too?

Hm... very good points. 

I have never thought of the theory that Mary would of been cheating on John... its a great twist.. and I could almost see Moftiss doing it. 

Especially because we never really see anything happening between John and Mary.

But latching onto some previous theories about what will happen with a baby in 221B:
-Okay, I highly doubt that the baby will be taken away by either
--social services
--grandparents
--death
-- a miscarrage is an idea, but we have to think- Moftiss made Mary have a baby for a reason. Would they just kill it off like that- just for the grief of the audience? It seems too artificial for me. 
-Maybe Mary will raise the baby at her flat?
-Maybe the baby will suffer some kind of ailment (blindness, deafness, paralysis, etc.) and have to be kept at a special home?
-Maybe, even though I'm contradicting myself, Social Services WILL come, and take the baby away?

Anyway. I do not think that having a baby in the show will completely ruin it. Moftiss is probably thinking very hard about this circumstance. THEY MUST HAVE A REASON FOR MAKING MARY PREGNANT. We now just have to figure out what it is. Then, we can figure out if it will live or die, stay or go, or be affected by Sherlock/John's weirdness. 

It would be cool to see the baby grow up throughout further seasons, maybe becoming a kind of "friend" to Sherlock.


"In 900 years of time and space, I've never met anyone who wasnt important" -Eleventh Doctor 

"Sentiment is a chemical defect found in the losing side" -Sherlock
 

April 7, 2014 7:51 am  #39


Re: Will the kid die too?

Sorry, I just don't see any hint that Mary cheated on John. Actually I would leave that one out as highly improbable.
- Mary raising the child in all peace at home could work, bit boring, bit of  "Amanda and Martin-their story", but anyway. Rather have another great supporting character than three and a half leads.
- I agree that misscarriage would give away anything the writers built. No sense there.
- same for me with a seriously ill child that has to live in a special home. What would it give to the show?
I have to disagree that baby Harrison in "Dexter" did work. Well it worked in not completely ruining the show, but I never saw that he enrichened it. I love children very much and Harrison was truly adorable. But was it necessary for the show? Not in my opinion.
With Dexter I loved that Jennifer and Michael were not the love interests but the siblings. They did a great job. And I adored Rita very much and missed her after she was killed.
 


------------------------------------------------------------

Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

 

April 7, 2014 9:30 am  #40


Re: Will the kid die too?

Baby-Watson and Sherlock's pet dog are imo just a device to make the audience drown in emotions to prevent them from thinking.
Kids and animals are often used when authors are out of their depths and don't know how to go on.
It's poor writing style. I don't believe in pets and babies without any purpose. Doyle made use of animals only for crime solving purposes. Take the dog in the Vampire case where the dog gave a clue. The baby was the victim.
Doyle used dogs to help Holmes to chase after criminals. But that's it.

When we get a pet dog, a baby, a wedding with hugging and kissing, declarations of love, Sherlock folding serviettes, sooo sweet music that it hurts, we should ask ourselves immediately "What's going on?" 
I am not an expert in music in any way but this wedding composition of Sherlock's is really awful. Well done!
 

 

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