BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Frankenstein Spoilers Thread (For those who've seen it)

Sherlock Holmes · June 18, 2012 9:15 pm

I thought I'd set this up for people who have already seen Frankenstein to discuss it in more detail without spoiling it for those that haven't in the other Frankenstein thread.

So, I went to see it today in Manchester, with Benedict as the Creature...and can I just say....it was UNBELIEVABLE!

I felt SOOO sorry for the Creature and was rooting for him all the way, I didn't really even care that he did bad things...all he wanted was a friend and for someone to accept him but everyone was so mean and horrible...that's what made him the way he was.

Benedict's acting was so amazing...the part at the beginning when he's trying to stand is completely mesmerising, I was just...UHHH...can't get over it. Still. One of the best pieces of acting I've ever seen. Ever.

I'm really glad it kind of had a happy ending...

Also...Jonny was brilliant as Frankenstein.

veecee · June 18, 2012 9:53 pm

Yeah, that opening scene. Wow. It must have been physically exhausting.
I've never read the book, so I don't know if the play was faithful to it. But the interpretation wasn't like any other I've seen.
(Did you see it live?)

Sherlock Holmes · June 18, 2012 10:39 pm

No, sadly not....it would have been amazing live right?

veecee · June 18, 2012 11:12 pm

Yes. I think there were some special effects in the theater that we couldn't appreciate on film. Did you get to see both versions? I only saw the one with BC as the monster, but I think that's the one if you have to choose.

It was interesting that the monster understood irony. Asking the doctor if he would have come had he (the monster) not killed the boy and also telling the fiancee that he lied just before he attacks her.

jenosborn · June 19, 2012 2:52 am

SH Thanks for starting the spoiler thread! Wasn't it fantastic? And exhausting? And wasn't BC's charisma just so palpable?

I'm going to copy what I wrote on the previous 'NT Live' thread:

I'd love to hear what other folks think, if/ and as they do get to see these shows. Some of my thoughts: (spoilers ahead if you don't care to read about these)

The set and lighting design, and the transitions were superb. I thought both JLM and BC were outstanding, though supporting acting roles I found to be a bit uneven. Slight differences in casting between the 2 versions (younger brother William). I did enjoy the curtain calls.

As for preferences in the dual roles performances? They both had strengths- we are so used to seeing BC as Sherlock, that some of the scenes with him as Victor are seamless and familiar. And as we know, his presence alone is riveting. One of the themes is highlighting the easy emerging humanity in the creature that's lacking in his creator. Both actors have some amazing strengths that can pull this off.

My preference? Early creature maybe JLM, older creature definitely BC . An interesting short film clip was shown before the performance, taken during rehearsals/etc. JLM attributing his 2-year old to some of his interpretation, BC mentioning visiting trauma recovery wards and watching people relearn to use their bodies. Helps to explain JLM's childlike wonder, BC so intellectually fascinated by every new thing.

Here were my notes:

JLM - BC -
soulful other-worldly
scarier guy stranger guy
bursts of energy elegantly tangled
thick voiced primal sounding
sensuous fluidly spinning
spark plug chest thumping
amazing eyes heartbreaking
surprising brilliant
lovely lovely

So. When I went for the 2nd time, I swore I was not going to miss watching for the creature's (BC) entrance in the wedding bed scene- but gosh, I did! I was
too enthralled watching the other performances… Guess I just need to go again!

Luckily, in the Bay Area (and other areas), it's being repeated in some theaters in late July/early August. hooray.

Sherlock Holmes · June 21, 2012 11:53 am

I'd definitely go again...

I'd like to make a list of all the lines that remind me of lines from Sherlock

veecee · June 21, 2012 8:06 pm

Oh, the bed! I forgot. I couldn't believe I was fooled by that. I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one.
I'd love to see the other version to compare. They showed both here, but somehow I didn't notice the listing till the second day, and even then I had to hightail it downtown to catch it.

Wholocked · June 24, 2012 6:45 am

I just got back from watching the VictorBatch, CreatureMiller version of Frankenstein. We discussed it a bit afterwards and the conclusion was that Benedict was a better Victor and did the 'coming to life' sequence at the beginning better as the creature, but that Miller was a better creature. I feel like Benedict was better all round, but maybe I'm biased.

Still blown away by the set & lighting too.

I kind of feel like, by seeing both actors play both roles, you get a more rounded perspective on both characters. Miller's performanced seemed to be more the broad brush-strokes of the characters, while Benedict's performance brought out the subtler, finer details. So between them the character was totally real.

I would love to watch them both at the same time on two screens or something! How cool would that be?

The play seemed to point out the Jekyll/Hyde relationship between the two characters, but it was also a bit of a nature/nurture exploration as well.

AGH could gush about it for hours!

VivaCohen · June 26, 2012 6:07 am

Sherlock Holmes wrote:
Benedict's acting was so amazing...the part at the beginning when he's trying to stand is completely mesmerising, I was just...UHHH...can't get over it. Still. One of the best pieces of acting I've ever seen. Ever.

YES. THIS.

The whole thing was just so well executed. Both actors did a fantastic job of showing the duality between Frankenstein and the creature. The creature's conversation with Elizabeth about learning to be human was powerful in it's relevance to not only Frankenstein's creature, but also as a metaphor for humans giving birth to children, socializing them, and then wondering why they grow up to do bad things (well at least that's one idea I took from it) The whole play did a brilliant job of going beyond the story and getting to the poignant truths present in Mary Shelley's Frankenstein.

I watched te origianl casting first, with Cumberbatch as the creature. Both versions were great and Cumberbatch's Victor Frankenstein was impressive. But Cumberbatch's portrayal of the creature did something to me. It hit me in that sweet spot. Or in the gut. Wherever, it hit me. A true work of art!

Sherli Bakerst · July 31, 2012 5:19 pm

Just saw this last night for the first and only time and wanted to offer some impressions:

I was surprised at how it began; it was very different from what I was expecting. I thought it would start off with how Viktor made the Creature and go from there. And after his brief entrance, I then kept waiting to see more of Ben. I thought his characterization of Viktor had a lot of Sherlock in it, and I kept finding references to Sherlock in many of his lines. I thought the set design was amazing and also really liked the music; I could see how the Opening Ceremony for the Olympics had some of its origins in this production. I thought Ben portrayed the mad scientist really well, especially as he spiralled downwards out of control and into complete insanity. That's how I interpreted it, anyway. Jonny Lee Miller as the Creature was great, the tragedy of his existence really came through. I would have loved to have seen Ben play that role; oh well, sigh.

Of the supporting cast, I liked the Father in the forest the best; I thought he did an excellent job. William was good, too, as was Uncle Ewan (sp?). But the others...well, they, especially Elizabeth and Viktor's magistrate father, seemed kind of flat. For me, it was more obvious that I was watching actors perform; not like Ben and Jonny, who completely inhabited their roles.

Now I have to read the novel.

Last edited by Sherli Bakerst (July 31, 2012 5:24 pm)

veecee · July 31, 2012 7:34 pm

Will you get to see the other version, with Ben as monster? That's the one I saw, and he was amazingly good.

I agree about Elzabeth and the father. I totally and thoroughly enjoyed the film/play, but certain of the actors were not as good. How could that be, considering the company?

Also, did the bed surprise fool you?

Sherli Bakerst · July 31, 2012 11:55 pm

veecee wrote:
Will you get to see the other version, with Ben as monster?

Also, did the bed surprise fool you?

No, unfortunately; the screening that I saw was the only one available in my region of the US at this time. I'm outta luck seeing Ben as the Creature. But at least I did get to see him as Viktor.

Yes, the bed scene was totally a surprise. I had looked at the bed and as far as a I could tell, it had a blanket over it and that was all. Everyone in the theater kind of gasped when we realized what happened.

KeepersPrice · August 1, 2012 3:39 am

Time at last to post my reaction to Frankenstein. First let me say that it was a pleasure to meet up with Sherli Bakerst last night. As I had suspected, Forum Folk are fantastic, wonderful, intelligent, talented people. Sherli proves that point.

On to the show. it was everything I had hoped it would be - theatrical, dramatic, emotional. I loved the sets, the sound, the lighting, the direction, not to mention the cast. Oh, there were a few tiny moments or exceptions here and there, but once it got going it had me on the edge of my chair. Someday I would like to see Ben as the creature; but last night I was content to see him as Viktor. Let me say at the outset that I loved his performance as Viktor. It stands on it's own as a brilliant portrayal of a desperately flawed man descending into obsession and madness. I was heartbroken for him and the creature by the end. They had become so entwined. That being said, I cannot tell a lie and say I was not looking for Sherlock moments in Viktor and in the play. I couldn't help it! I'm obsessed with Sherlock and was in need of a fix during this miserable hiatus. Luckily for me my needs were satisfied in a few places

Here are some Sherlock moments I noted:
Viktor wears a Sherlock type coat in some scenes - perhaps just a bit shorter but basically the same cut - so at times he had a very Sherlockian appearance.
Like Sherlock Viktor has a hard time relating to people - especially to women as seen by his relationship with Elizabeth. Even sadder is that he hardly acknowledges the death of his little brother except to obsess on the fact that his creation was responsible for it. Ironically his creature can feel love deeply where Viktor cannot.
At one point Viktor and the creature fight and the creature gets him in a headlock just like John did in the 'punch me in the face' scene. Same angle, same expressions.
At another point Viktor says to the creature something like, "Oh, so you think the earth goes around?" This got quite a chuckle from the audience. Since I'm not sure that line was meant to be funny in the play I can only assume that the chuckle came because many in the audience were aware of Sherlock not understanding the solar system. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this point).
The most poignant moment for me was at the end when the creature is relentlessly leading Viktor across the frozen waste of the arctic, easily keeping one step ahead of Viktor's obsession to destroy him. Viktor collapses to the ground in exhaustion and the creature fears he has died. He cradles him in his arms and (I'm paraphrasing here because it all happens so quickly) says things to him like, "Don't leave me" and " I only wanted you to love me" and "we belong to each other" and he kisses him on the forehead and cheek. God forgive me but I was picturing John at the end of Reichenbach if John had been allowed to touch Sherlock and express full emotion.

So I came away satisfied on many different levels, the three most prominent being 1) I loved the riveting performances in the play and the play itself. 2) I loved that I could see Sherlock moments that made me happy. 3) I loved getting to meet a Forum friend.

The whole evening was worth the two hour trip from home. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

VivaCohen · August 1, 2012 4:46 am

Sherli Bakerst wrote:
Just saw this last night for the first and only time and wanted to offer some impressions:

I was surprised at how it began; it was very different from what I was expecting. I thought it would start off with how Viktor made the Creature and go from there. And after his brief entrance, I then kept waiting to see more of Ben. I thought his characterization of Viktor had a lot of Sherlock in it, and I kept finding references to Sherlock in many of his lines. I thought the set design was amazing and also really liked the music; I could see how the Opening Ceremony for the Olympics had some of its origins in this production. I thought Ben portrayed the mad scientist really well, especially as he spiralled downwards out of control and into complete insanity. That's how I interpreted it, anyway. Jonny Lee Miller as the Creature was great, the tragedy of his existence really came through. I would have loved to have seen Ben play that role; oh well, sigh.

Now I have to read the novel.

I wish you could have seen Benedict as the creature! Every pair of eyes in the theater were fixated on the screen when I saw it and no one moved for the first 20 minutes of him writhing around on the ground when he was being born as the creature. The physicality was really amazing, which I think really helped him take the role too a whole other level.

I agree with you about the Olympic ceremony! The first half hour of the ceremony could have been taken from the play. Very much a good thing, in my opinion

Last edited by VivaCohen (August 1, 2012 4:46 am)

hepzibah · August 1, 2012 1:45 pm

Hi Sherli and KP. I have to confess to massive jealously that you had a chance to see Frankenstein. Hopefully it will become an annual event at cinemas worldwide.

I can highly recommend the book, you can download the Mary Shelley book from Kindle (see my signature!) for free. It is very different to the play but gives the fuller picture. I also read the play by Nick Dear, which costs a few dollars to download. It leaves out huge sections of the book, of course, but is a fascinating read.

And the bed thing you mentioned, what was that, I need to know

Last edited by hepzibah (August 1, 2012 1:47 pm)

KeepersPrice · August 1, 2012 8:54 pm

The bed thing: Viktor has married his cousin Elizabeth. She is preparing herself for their wedding night. Viktor comes into the bedroom but instead of going to her as a loving new husband, all he can do is obsess that the creature may be lurking somewhere on the property. He rushes out to make sure things are secure, leaving Elizabeth alone in the room. The marriage bed has figured front and center on the stage. It appears smooth and perfectly made up. Then the minute Viktor leaves, the creature pops up from the center of the bed as if by magic, throwing off the covers and grabbing Elizabeth. It was very scary and startling! A real magic trick. The bed looked perfect and smooth and then suddenly the creature flies up out of it.

I won't even go into the brutal rape scene that eventually follows

veecee · August 2, 2012 3:15 am

KP, a very nice report. I saw the other version, but I can't say I reported in such depth. I do agree with Viva that Ben's "birth" was amazing, but I don't know that Jonny's was any less so.

And I am so happy you and Sherli got to meet.

Index
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» Frankenstein Spoilers Thread (For those who've seen it)

June 18, 2012 9:15 pm #1

Frankenstein Spoilers Thread (For those who've seen it)

June 18, 2012 9:53 pm #2

Re: Frankenstein Spoilers Thread (For those who've seen it)

June 18, 2012 10:39 pm #3

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June 18, 2012 11:12 pm #4

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June 19, 2012 2:52 am #5

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June 21, 2012 11:53 am #6

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June 21, 2012 8:06 pm #7

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June 24, 2012 6:45 am #8

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June 26, 2012 6:07 am #9

Re: Frankenstein Spoilers Thread (For those who've seen it)

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

July 31, 2012 5:19 pm #10

Re: Frankenstein Spoilers Thread (For those who've seen it)

July 31, 2012 7:34 pm #11

Re: Frankenstein Spoilers Thread (For those who've seen it)

July 31, 2012 11:55 pm #12

Re: Frankenstein Spoilers Thread (For those who've seen it)

veecee wrote:

August 1, 2012 3:39 am #13

Re: Frankenstein Spoilers Thread (For those who've seen it)

August 1, 2012 4:46 am #14

Re: Frankenstein Spoilers Thread (For those who've seen it)

Sherli Bakerst wrote:

August 1, 2012 1:45 pm #15

Re: Frankenstein Spoilers Thread (For those who've seen it)

August 1, 2012 8:54 pm #16

Re: Frankenstein Spoilers Thread (For those who've seen it)

August 2, 2012 3:15 am #17

Re: Frankenstein Spoilers Thread (For those who've seen it)

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