BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Jeremy Brett's Sherlock Holmes

beekeeper · April 3, 2013 10:36 am

I dunno, I do struggle with Jeremy Brett. I just find his story so heartbreakingly sad really, such an example of how far we've come as a society in terms of acceptance of sexuality and mental health problems.

I really love his portrayal of Holmes, they are the ones I grew up with. I think, had he been SH now, he'd have been even better. To an extent Sherlock benefits from our increasingly emotional literacy and acceptance. But the sacrifices he made to do this awesome portrayal just feel so very sad somehow. It destroyed his mental health and, I'm guessing, may have had an impact on how open he could be about his sexuality (he was bisexual but after his second wife died he had no public relationships-of course fine if he just had no relationships but so sad if he felt he couldn't celebrate other relationships in the same way after he becane known for Holmes). Its very mixed for me, this.

Somehow that lines, "don't make people into heroes, John,", really resonated with me as regards Brett. Someone who wasn't allowed to be imperfect :-(

Last edited by beekeeper (April 3, 2013 10:40 am)

Davina · April 3, 2013 4:02 pm

I agree wholeheartedly with your thoughts on this delightful but fragile man.

Sherli Bakerst · May 17, 2013 10:44 pm

WGBH, one of the PBS stations that broadcasts Sherlock in the US, will show Sherlock Holmes with Jeremy Brett starting on Wednesday, May 29th, at 8pm. It'll be on Channel 44 (not 2) in the Boston area. Maybe other PBS stations will also be broadcasting the show. Here's part of the blurb about it:

"... this month, WGBH brings you Masterpiece Mystery's original, highy-acclaimed TV series, Sherlock Holmes, with the wonderfully arch performances of late actor Jeremy Brett as the iconic master detective. Brett brings to life 13 of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's original short stories in Series 1 of this beloved television drama. How does he do it? It's elementary."

I guess this is supposed to help tide us over until the real Sherlock returns. (But since I've never seen this show, I will certainly tune in.)

SilverMoonDragonB · May 21, 2013 12:14 pm

kazza474 wrote:
Well that's what I mean; we know Ben watched a lot of JB & so it appears he has to some degree based Sherlock on JB's Holmes.(I like to call Cumberbatch's version "Sherlock" and Bate's version "Holmes" seems natural really)
The question I wondered about that is "Is it deliberate or is this the way Ben imagine's he would be anyway", which must have been influenced by seeing JB's Holmes at an early stage in his viewing life.

Is that understandable?

I would say so, people are usually inspired by somewhere, and though they bring their own interpretation and creative bent there could sometimes be remnents of their initial inspiration in their performance, makes sense.
Jeremy Brett was the first screen Holmes I truly loved, I had seen many adaptations before, but he was my favourite...until I saw Benedict. Still, both those two are my top favs. In fact, I saw an interesting list of the top ten guys who have portrayed Sherlock Holmes, and once I got to 2nd and 1st place I thought "Hm, I haven't seen Jeremy or Benedict yet in this list yet...they better be top 1 and 2 or I'll be mad!!!!! ", uh anyway, Benedict ended up being 2nd and Jeremy 1st...I was ok with that, I might've switched that around, but it would've been a difficult choice. I love both those guys

Maggi13 · June 25, 2013 4:52 pm

Such a great discussion.
Just watched the early fan video, so well made.
There are quite a few similarities there to the way Ben is playing Sherlock, the way he smiles at John or walks over furniture, love the early blanket, him covered in pages and books reminded me of TBB.
Hope we get to see BenSherlock wake up MartinJohn in one of the episodes

Mnemosyne · June 29, 2013 1:10 pm

Maggi13 wrote:
Hope we get to see BenSherlock wake up MartinJohn in one of the episodes

Just looming over him in S3 Ep1: "I'm back John!"
*John freaks out and punches him before coming to his senses.*
I don't think John is a 'morning person.'

Anyway back OT.

There are similarities between performances but I think that is proof of both actors paying great attention to the source material (and, let's face it, would we expect anything less from either of them?)

221BBakerStreet_ · July 10, 2013 8:42 pm

I love Jeremy Brett as Sherlock Holmes. He was a perfect actor for it.

Jacco111 · July 11, 2013 11:41 am

JB = Best.Holmes.Ever.

BrettianHolmesFan · November 8, 2013 5:33 am

beekeeper wrote:
I dunno, I do struggle with Jeremy Brett. I just find his story so heartbreakingly sad really, such an example of how far we've come as a society in terms of acceptance of sexuality and mental health problems.

I really love his portrayal of Holmes, they are the ones I grew up with. I think, had he been SH now, he'd have been even better. To an extent Sherlock benefits from our increasingly emotional literacy and acceptance. But the sacrifices he made to do this awesome portrayal just feel so very sad somehow. It destroyed his mental health and, I'm guessing, may have had an impact on how open he could be about his sexuality (he was bisexual but after his second wife died he had no public relationships-of course fine if he just had no relationships but so sad if he felt he couldn't celebrate other relationships in the same way after he becane known for Holmes). Its very mixed for me, this.

Somehow that lines, "don't make people into heroes, John,", really resonated with me as regards Brett. Someone who wasn't allowed to be imperfect :-(

I can't quite agree with your thoughts completely because from everything I have read and indeed the interviews I can find with Jeremy himself seem to at least somewhat confirm what I am about to say. You think he was not free to have any public relationships because of the fact he was so well-known for playing Holmes the last decade of his life and how that would be be impacted if people knew about his private life. I don't believe that was the case as to why there were no known relationships for him because I honestly believe he never ever got over the loss of his second wife.

By all accounts and indeed like I said in the interviews I've seen/listened to, there's a change that comes over him when she is brought up. Again from all accounts he adored and loved her so much and from what I can gather, it sounds like to me that she fully had claimed his heart, so much so I think that when she died there was likely no one else for him.

Jeremy Brett is and always will be MY Holmes! He is truly in a league all his own!

Last edited by BrettianHolmesFan (November 8, 2013 5:35 am)

BrettianHolmesFan · November 8, 2013 6:41 am

Swanpride wrote:
I'm not trying to be mean, but I sometimes wonder how much his personal struggles add to the myth around him.

For me that is not the case - I watched most of the Granada series before I learned more about Jeremy Brett's struggles with manic depression and the loss of his second wife. It was and still is his acting I fell in love with from the moment I began watching and when I watch the episodes I feel like I am seeing Holmes being brought to life before my very eyes!

Don't get me wrong, the Granada Series is really good, and Brett was great. But when it comes to classic adaptations, I think the Russian series is a little bit better because it has a better understanding that it is still an adaptation.

Well I have given the Russian version a shot and to be honest what I saw didn't compell me to watch any further than I did. I need to give it a try as so many have sung its praises but I think I hated having to read the subtitles as I don't speak Russian and the pace for me was a touch slow.

Sorry.

Last edited by BrettianHolmesFan (November 8, 2013 6:48 am)

SherlocklivesinOH · January 12, 2014 6:27 pm

I'm glad folks here have at least mentioned Jeremy's relationships with men. So many of his fans are unwilling to acknowledge that.

I think Brett may have been the most slash-friendly Holmes. There is something very...romantic...about his interactions with Watson: frequent touching, kind of a bedroom voice much of the time. And they often interact like a married couple, and Watson never does marry a woman in that 'verse.

Between the bisexuality and mental health issues, Jeremy's personal life ended up resembling Holmes' in many ways.

Jacco111 · January 14, 2014 4:47 pm

I absolutely do not agree with your 'romantic' view on the relationship between Holmes and Watson in the Granada series. They are portrayed as good friends and absolutely not as lovers. Brett and Hardwick said so themselves. Brett: 'It is about friendship (...) they are both club men, the Victorian era was very much an era of friendship'
And Watson married Mary Morstan, though off-screen, just as in the books. They probably avoided giving much attention to the marriages of Watson because that one is rather confusing in the stories as well.

I don't think that Jeremy Brett was actually very much like Holmes in his personal life. He said on several occasions that he was more like Watson and that he learned nothing from Holmes to use in his personal life. Of course, his way of acting might have changed him and perhaps may even have encouraged his 'darker sides'.

I think we should see Jeremy Brett apart from Holmes. The problem with actors like him who really define a role is that parts of them might even be projected on the role. Brett himself was very clear about the fact that he wanted to portray Holmes in the way he was written by Doyle.

And yes, Brett was probably bisexual, I don't know who would be unwilling to acknowledge that?

SherlocklivesinOH · January 19, 2014 6:16 am

Jacco111 wrote:
And yes, Brett was probably bisexual, I don't know who would be unwilling to acknowledge that?

Apparently on some forums that focus on him, the subject is taboo..ostensibly because it's "too personal," but the same people are often willing to discuss his illnesses and the relationships he had with women.

Davina · January 19, 2014 4:08 pm

Well...that seems a bit odd, don't you think?

deerstalker · March 6, 2014 6:03 am

I am watching the Granada series for the first time and I am in awe of Brett's portrayal. Fascinating. And I have a bit of a crush on Brett/ Hardwicke interactions, they play off each other so well.
Indeed a lot of Benedict's and Brett's mannerisms are similar; probably rooted in the canon ( I believe thi gs like jumping on a chair with both feet is canon). It is so interesting to see great actors portray Holmes because it requires so much subtlety. I love how Brett modulates his voice between calm and exultation; love how he achieves so much by slight movement of lips or eyebrows. Brett and Cumberbatch, what great casting in both cases. Hardwicke and Freeman, as well ( I started with "the Return" so it's Hardwicke who is on my screen)

Last edited by deerstalker (March 6, 2014 6:05 am)

nakahara · March 6, 2014 10:59 am

deerstalker wrote:
Indeed a lot of Benedict's and Brett's mannerisms are similar; probably rooted in the canon ( I believe thi gs like jumping on a chair with both feet is canon).

Because both Granada and BBC series didn′t want to portray Sherlock Holmes as that stereotypical figure who is only distinguished by Deerstalker and an Iverness Coat, they had to rely on other things. So what is there in the canon that tells you „You are looking at Sherlock Holmes!“ when those stereotypical atributes aren′t present?

Hand gestures – most notably the famous „steepled fingers“:

Jeremy:

Benedict:

The way Sherlock sits on his chair (it′s even used for another detective figures, like „L“ from japanese series „Death Note“ for example.)

Lightly sardonic half-smile, almost a smirk:

The way your set looks – it can be based on elder version of the story so that your audience will be reminded they saw those heroes in similar setting before (both Granada and BBC used similar exterior and interior sets for Baker Street 221B).

If you are careful with such details you can give your audience an illusion that they are watching the same people, even if your story is set 120 years to the future:

SherlocklivesinOH · March 8, 2014 3:19 pm

I have to say though, I know Holmes may well have only been in his twenties at the beginning of canon, and Benedict may not be that much younger than Brett was when he started the series...but I think Benedict and Martin LOOK youthful, while Brett and his Watsons have a "mature" look.

And let's face it, the modern ones act more immature, too.

nakahara · March 9, 2014 8:28 pm

That′s true. Still, I slightly prefer their younger personas because, frankly, in the canon they do such wild things that it would be downright impossible for elder men to manage the same without problems. For example, they run around the moor like badasses in Abbey Grange, Silver Blaze and Hound of the Baskervilles, Sherlock climbs the roof in Sign of Four and so on...

deerstalker · March 11, 2014 5:07 am

Thanks for the pictures, nakahara. They make the point perfectly.

About the characters' ages: Benedict was much younger than Jeremy Brett when the respective series started filming; the difference is almost 20 years. And in the canon, I believe, Holmes and Watson are even younger ( in "The Study in Scarlet" Watson keeps wondering what Sherlock might be studying... so Sherlock was closer to the age of student of medicine rather than, say, a professor of medicine).
It is a wonder that no past series made Holmes and Watson young. As much as I LOVE the Granada series, when Watson meets Mary Morstan it is such a jolt because the age difference is so vast. And in the canon, he meets her smth. like 5-6 years after moving in wth Sherlock? ( I am not fact chekicng at the moment so please forgive me if I am a year or so off)
One of my biggest joys of BBC Sherlock is to find all the re- shuffled references from the canon and the previous series. One can just imagine Mofftiss' delight at using and twising yet another obscure reference.
I am a little bit in love with Brett as Sherlock. One lift of an eyebrow is worth a thousand words. And his affection for Watson is undeniable.

Last edited by deerstalker (March 11, 2014 5:09 am)

nakahara · March 11, 2014 8:45 am

Canonical Holmes was born in 1854 and he first met Watson in 1881 during their case of „Study in pink“. That means he was just 27 at the time their adventures started. And I read somewhere that canonical Watson was supposed to be a year younger than Holmes, so he was 26 at the same time. They were in fact a very young men, not the elder gentlemen as they are often potrayed in film.

The problem of those film adaptation is that only an established actors (who already achieved fame in film) ever got the role of Holmes and Watson and naturally, they were in their older age when that happened. The audience was then swayed into belief that it should be like that and that Holmes and Watson were always somehow old, even if the exploits of SH and JW in canon (where they do many energetic and dangerous things fit only for young men) prove otherwise.

Considering BBC′s series, I feel the same – Moftiss are ingenious in finding incredible amount of references from canon and various movie adaptations and to hide them inside their own story. It′s very enjoyable to discover new and new references every time when you are rewatching Sherlock.

Oh, and Jeremy Brett practically owned the role. He single-handedly created the best portrayal of Victorian Holmes, IMHO.