BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » At the cemetery, do you think Sherlock was close enough to hear John?

JaneCo · June 23, 2012 1:25 pm

Hi SP, I thought everyone had already seen this, but I couldn't resist when I saw your post!

If disguise is a self portrait, what does this tell us about Benedict Cumberbatch?

Glad you enjoyed it, Jane

veecee · June 23, 2012 2:01 pm

Please stop. My eyes hurt.

ancientsgate · June 23, 2012 3:05 pm

veecee wrote:
Please stop. My eyes hurt.

*hands you the brain bleach and the anti-histamine eye drops* There, there. Feel better now? *g*

SusiGo · June 23, 2012 3:18 pm

This will give me nightmares, JaneCo, how could you ?

Dramagod · June 23, 2012 3:22 pm

I don't think Sherlock heard John, but I think he was able to read his body language and his facial expressions to know how his faked death had crushed him. And the look on Sherlock's face on the other hand seems to be the "I'm sorry I did this to you John, but I had no choice" -expression. It'll be interesting to see how Sherlock will drop the bomb on John next season.

Davina · June 23, 2012 4:17 pm

The photo shows that deep down inside Benedict is from Essex because...he is wearing white stilettos.

Maren · June 23, 2012 4:59 pm

Dramagod wrote:
I don't think Sherlock heard John, but I think he was able to read his body language and his facial expressions to know how his faked death had crushed him. And the look on Sherlock's face on the other hand seems to be the "I'm sorry I did this to you John, but I had no choice" -expression. It'll be interesting to see how Sherlock will drop the bomb on John next season.

Well, I hope the writers take some license and make it so Sherlock DID hear. I've rarely been so wrenched by a scene/delivery. Sherlock NEEDS to hear what John said!

I don't have an opinion on Sherlock's expression, so I like hearing what others think. Actually, the more I think off it, I feel that Sherlock wasn't moved -- just clinically observing then thinking what his next move should be. I REFUSE to believe that, though, so I've decided I'm wrong.

Maren · June 23, 2012 5:01 pm

JaneCo wrote:

I see what you mean Sentimental pulse . It's probably not his best look.

LOL! Then LOL again!

JaneCo · June 23, 2012 5:12 pm

Wonder if John ("3 continents Watson") would try to chat him up, after all he does have an eye for the ladies?

Maren · June 24, 2012 2:40 am

Davina wrote:
The photo shows that deep down inside Benedict is from Essex because...he is wearing white stilettos.

I don't get the "in" joke, D, but I think I get it (and think it's funny) anyway!

Sentimental Pulse · June 24, 2012 2:45 am

Davina wrote:
The photo shows that deep down inside Benedict is from Essex because...he is wearing white stilettos.

Yes white heels with darker hose or legs gives the dreaded Minnie Mouse look. A major fashion faux pas. He is a saucy wench but needs a bit of electrolysis

Last edited by Sentimental Pulse (June 24, 2012 2:45 am)

veecee · June 24, 2012 3:56 am

ancientsgate wrote:
veecee wrote:
Please stop. My eyes hurt.
*hands you the brain bleach and the anti-histamine eye drops* There, there. Feel better now? *g*

Thank you. That was painful.

Re: Sherlock coming back in disguise. So far his disguises have just been clothing (clerical collar and security guard uniform) -- thank goodness -- plus his acting Even though these days you probably could do some amazing things with makeup and prosthetics compared to the original Sherlock's time, I can't imagine him doing it. But, correct me if I'm wrong, the Brits do like a guy in drag.

Re: John's back to Sherlock. I don't think we know exactly where Sherlock was during the scene, do we? We don't see him till John's walking away. Anyway, I was just throwing lipreading out there as a possibility. I think you could tell John's feelings even without the words.

Re: The look on Sherlock's face. I can't read it for sure. I think it's purposely ambiguous so that we can spend endless hours discussing it.

JaneCo · June 24, 2012 9:12 am

Maren wrote:
Sherlock NEEDS to hear what John said!

This expresses my feelings exactly Maren.

He already knows that John's trust is unwavering but did he realise how strong John's emotional attachment to him was. If he didn't know before there was certainly sufficient evidence at the graveside. Someone said that Sherlock didn't need to hear, that body language would have sufficed - yes, this is also true. Even reflected in the gravestone that was enough.

This discussion has made me wonder if witnessing this emotional connection would be a factor that would make Sherlock stay away,

"All lives end. All hearts are broken. Caring is not an advantage, Sherlock."

Davina · June 24, 2012 10:51 am

But also, Sherlock IS the only one who CAN 'just stop this' and perform 'one more miracle' for John isn't he. If he can hear what John says he would pretty sure that coming back to life in some miraculous way would be fulfilling John's plea.

Sentimental Pulse · June 24, 2012 12:20 pm

Now that Sherlock knows exactly how emotionally attached to Sherlock John is, it will be interesting to see how long Sherlock goes without letting John know he is alive. I am guessing Moftiss will be true to the canon and let some time lapse. If so it will be interesting to see why that lapse had to occur and how Sherlock ultimately gets John to accept the reasons why. My God how are we going to wait so long for The Empty House?

Sherli Bakerst · June 24, 2012 1:34 pm

Davina wrote:
But also, Sherlock IS the only one who CAN 'just stop this' and perform 'one more miracle' for John isn't he. If he can hear what John says he would pretty sure that coming back to life in some miraculous way would be fulfilling John's plea.

Honestly, I don't think that would factor into Sherlock's decision to reveal himself to John. While he has become more aware and gained understanding of appropriate societal mores (eg saying thank you and not looking so happy when misfortune befalls others), I don't think that Sherlock actually feels like he has to conform to them. He always has to be prodded by John in those situations. I think that when Sherlock returns, the timing will be due to practical reasons, not emotional ones. Just because John wants him to come back, and is devastated by his supposed death, won't be reason enough.

On another note: Re Sherlock's look in the cemetery--I think he is just coolly assessing the situation, observing what is happening.

JaneCo · June 24, 2012 5:57 pm

Sherli Bakerst wrote:
On another note: Re Sherlock's look in the cemetery--I think he is just coolly assessing the situation, observing what is happening.

Yes, I think that has been left open to interpretation quite deliberately. (I hear a chorus of Oooh they wouldn't do that to us would they? )

In previous posts I have tried to imagine or think my way around it by asking questions (Is he alone? blah de blah de blah etc.). I hoped that others might chip in with better ideas.

Sherlock Holmes · June 24, 2012 6:26 pm

He's definitely not close enough to hear what they're saying, especially since John is talking pretty quietly anyway. And he wouldn't be able to lip read because he's actually stood behind them and not in front.

This is my theory on WHY he's there...

So in the books he's mainly based in Italy during the time he's away and travels all round Europe solving crimes under a different name and helping to catch Moriarty's henchmen. I expect Sherlock will be doing something similar, it would certainly make no sense and would be too risky for him to remain in London. I always place the grave visit about a month after his "death", because the grass is just starting to grow over where the coffin would be. I imagine that during this time Sherlock would be laying low in a safehouse arranged by Mycroft, and that Mycroft's people would have surveillance on John. Once they'd set up Sherlock's new identity and a place for him to live abroad he would be off, and I think that day at the grave he was about to head over to Europe and just wanted to see John and Mrs Hudson one last time before he left, knowing he would be away for a long time. Sentiment, yes, but he's not entirely above sentiment as we know. Mycroft would have told him when they were going and arranged a car to take him down there.

JaneCo · June 24, 2012 6:50 pm

Sherli Bakerst wrote:
On another note: Re Sherlock's look in the cemetery--I think he is just coolly assessing the situation, observing what is happening.

Yes, this is highly likely. It has deliberately been left open to interpretation (Moriarty face)

VivaCohen · June 26, 2012 6:48 am

He definitely looked too far away to hear (or lipread) what John was saying. Maybe they put him so far away so that viewers wouldn't be thinking, 'Oh, hey, John would obviously see him if he were standing that close' I always thought Sherlock was in the graveyard to show than Watson had somewhat humanized him. This always seemed the right thing to assume because all of the actors and writers go on and on about how the series is particularly interested in the "humanization" and "evolvement" of Sherlock. Plus, there have been other hints of Sherlock being more sentimental than he first appeared. He now admits to having friends, he asks Mycroft if it's odd that they don't care, and he asked to keep Irene's phone purely for sentimental reasons. I don't think Sherlock would go to the graveyard to make sure John was safe. He has less conspicuous ways of obtaining that information and I don't think anyone would try to off or abduct John in a graveyard. My two cents

Last edited by VivaCohen (June 26, 2012 6:55 am)