@Fj How could I even forget that?
Presumably Mary said she loved John when she was marrying him.

Last edited by besleybean (March 1, 2014 7:57 pm)

@besleybean, presumably. But they didn't show us. Wonder why.

Last edited by SolarSystem (March 1, 2014 7:58 pm)

SolarSystem

Thank you. It's even more horrendous without the music; an immensely stark confrontation. And yes, it really does highlight what troubles me most about Mary.

We talk about Sherlock forgiving Mary; I think we should not overlook the question of whether Mary has forgiven Sherlock...

besleybean wrote:

Cos the episodes are only 90 minutes long and they knew, more importantly: that if I had to sit through a bloody wedding(particularly a religious one), I may just refuse to watch Sherlock ever again!

Who said they'd have needed to show us a complete wedding ceremony?

@bb: Today you sit between the woman you have made your wife and the man you have saved – in short, the two people who love you most in all this world.

And here we are again - talking about the things that might be there versus what is there. Sherlock says that he and Mary love John. John says he loves Mary and Sherlock. Mary does neither. I think 270 minutes would have been long enough to write her that line if they had wanted to. 

SusiGo wrote:

@bb: Today you sit between the woman you have made your wife and the man you have saved – in short, the two people who love you most in all this world.

And here we are again - talking about the things that might be there versus what is there. Sherlock says that he and Mary love John. John says he loves Mary and Sherlock. Mary does neither. I think 270 minutes would have been long enough to write her that line if they had wanted to. 

Completely agree. What they want us to see, they let us see.
 

SolarSystem wrote:

Found something on tumblr and didn't know where to put this, so I guess it can as well go in this thread. It's a short part of the scene back in 221B with Mary, John and Sherlock - without the background music. I think it's even more intense without the music...

http://cumberlordofcuteness.tumblr.com/post/77586776625/without-background-music-please-dont-take-it
 

That's great. I could have done without the music in that scene anyway.
I also agree with what Fillyjonk wrote. I hope we'll get a better explanation in S4, or at least a hint at some kind of justification that would make both Mary's and Sherlock's behaviour more understandable. I don't think it was just sloppy writing though. Not at such a crucial point, and not after all the surprises and the intentional misleading.

And he knew best..ah, Oscar my love.

Fillyjonk wrote:

I wouldn't want her to be on my enemies list.

No, but she could make a very useful addition to the "friends" list. As long as you can be sure she's not lying.

Willow wrote:

besleybean wrote:

Huh?
Sherlock has tried to make her safe.

Sherlock betrayed her to John, damaged her ego and placed her in the position where she had to be the supplicant.

Remember, this is a woman who sees nothing wrong with killing people if she thinks they should die; she has a massive ego, and she has lived her life by the credo that power comes from the barrel of a gun. Her gun. And now she has to ask nicely whether Sherlock and John will take her case when up until now she has been the one who called the shots; I would be extremely surprised if she would ever forgive that.

As Oscar Wilde put it: 'Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them more.'

 

 
Sherlock didn′t betray her. It was not betrayal - he never promised to keep her true identity from John. It was Sherlock′s duty to notify his friend that a cute fluffy bunny he lives with is actually a deadly cobra.
 
Mary is sinister, cold and she has an admirable self-control in dangerous situations. I don′t see her as especially bloodthirsty, she is very rational and calculating in her actions. She doesn′t shoot people for fun, she doesn′t use excessive violence, even if she can be absolutely merciless and cruel when pursuing her goals. She shot Sherlock and later threatened him with a gun in an effort to stop him from revealing her true identity to John. But she has no motive to continue that behavior now, when her worst fears were already realized and she was ousted to her husband.
 
Sherlock nicely neutralized her when he gave her real identity to John. What gain can she obtain from any personal vendetta now? Any harm occurs to Sherlock after that Leinster Gardens fiasco and John will automatically ascribe it to her. She must maintain a facade of a nice quiet girl now if she wants to preserve her marriage (and it is apparent from her behavior she really wants to preserve it, no matter what her actual motives can be). And that first Sherlock shooting certainly roused Mycroft′s interest. He won′t stand aside if Mary tries some funny business once again.
 
Then Sherlock who is in one move protecting John, Mycroft and Mary suddenly shoots CAM and thus prevents him from sending information about Mary′s cover to her enemies. And Mary′s worst fears dissipate shortly before that – John has forgiven her.
 
Mary has probably a huge ego but as a cold-blooded and rational person she has to notice Sherlock′s action were quite beneficial pertaining to her. She may not like him but it would be superfluous and absolutely unnecessary to bear any further grudge towards him.
 

Last edited by nakahara (March 1, 2014 10:01 pm)