BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012.


You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?



January 23, 2014 12:30 pm  #21


Re: Mary's Death

Swanpride wrote:

Neither is Mycroft "part of them" but he has nevertheless an important role in the show, despite barely turning up in canon.

I just think that if the writers will kill her, they will it when we don't expect it. Everyone will expect for every third episodes of each season, though.

Mycroft appears, or is mentioned in, 4 of the original stories but we know that he had many meetings with Sherlock:

' Again and again I have taken a problem to him, and have received an explanation which has afterwards proved to be the correct one. And yet he was absolutely incapable of working out the practical points...'

I don't think that you can accurately describe that as 'barely turning up in the canon'; Sherlock obviously maintains frequent contact with him and Moftiss are showing that contact.

I agree that many would expect her to be polished off in a seasonal finale, but I wouldn't; that has to be about Sherlock. However the storyline with Mary ends it can't be a rerun of John desperately grieving because John's already done the desperately grieving thing for Sherlock, and they can't simply rinse and repeat and still keep the story fresh.

It will be interesting to see how they manage it, but the obvious way to avoid the desperate grief would be by Mary doing something truly unforgivable; for example, if she's part of a wider story line involving the apparent return of Moriarty. And I have never understood why a woman madly in love would not dive into the fire alongside Sherlock to help drag John out; it doesn't ring true to me. Perhaps there is a clue in there...
 

 

January 23, 2014 2:29 pm  #22


Re: Mary's Death

It wouldn't surprise me if she sticks around in the background a bit, maybe for another series as a background wife like in the canon. I guess we'll get one more episode about her in which we learn about her past and which probably also contains her death. Maybe in series 4, or in series 5, Moftiss are probably a bit more confident about planning things into the future than before. 

The baby however is another story. I have absolutely no idea how they would make that work, it's not canon. It'll have to die at some point but how to do that while still being classy? A miscarriage or disease are the only options I can think about. 

 

January 23, 2014 3:08 pm  #23


Re: Mary's Death

Swanpride wrote:

If you count "by the way" remarks like this, than Mary/Mrs Watson is just as present. Never mind that in canon Holmes and Watson are not living together for long periods of time (and still end up together again at one point). I think I mentioned already somewhere that the stories with Mary/Mrs Watson have the advantage that they have way more creative beginnings. She is a character who adds to the dynamic, and I think the writers will use that - even if they decide to get rid of her, it will have a proper built up and a proper inpact. They will not gloss over the emotions connected with her the way ACD did.

I do not regard 'Again and again I have taken a problem to him' as a 'by the way' remark, and I cannot fathom how Mary Morstan in canon could be said to be just as present in Holmes' working life as Mycroft was; she wasn't.

Mary in Season 3 has no such role either; the sum total of her positive contribution is remembering Sholto's room number. This is not exactly a rounded CV; she can recognise a skip code but doesn't understand how to decipher it, and her one skill set as the lethal killer nurse wandering around offing anyone who looks a bit dodgy has been conclusively ruled out by Moftiss.

This doesn't leave her with many options, and Mofftiss have already done a lot of preparation for the emotions of the characters. John's decision to try and make a go of it was far from a foregone conclusion, and whilst he does give her the benefit of the doubt it would not survive the discovery, say, that she had played a part in causing TRF or has something to do with the return of the Big Bad. It would undoubtedly be traumatic, but he has already dealt with much of the grief; the anger that he acknowledges he still feels would then be unleashed. That would be much more fun for the actor, Martin, since he's not a one trick pony; he doesn't want to do same old, same old.

Equally with Sherlock; he's gone further than anyone has the right to expect in putting aside the agony she inflicted on him, but I don't think he gives second chances. It does seem to me that his affection for Mary is based on the fact that John wants her, and he wants John to be happy; add to that Sherlock's somewhat naive belief that mothers are like his mother, giving up her career to have children, and his disillusionment would be extreme...


 

 

January 23, 2014 3:28 pm  #24


Re: Mary's Death

silverblaze wrote:

It wouldn't surprise me if she sticks around in the background a bit, maybe for another series as a background wife like in the canon. I guess we'll get one more episode about her in which we learn about her past and which probably also contains her death. Maybe in series 4, or in series 5, Moftiss are probably a bit more confident about planning things into the future than before. 

The baby however is another story. I have absolutely no idea how they would make that work, it's not canon. It'll have to die at some point but how to do that while still being classy? A miscarriage or disease are the only options I can think about. 

The baby is one of the reasons I think she will die sooner rather than later; I can see hours of endless amusement with Sherlock confronted by a real baby but it's not dramatic and it's not special. There are plenty of shows with adorable babies and terrible toddlers but Sherlock isn't aimed at that sector of the market; about the only thing which would reconcile me to Mary nobly dying to save others ( I mean, really?) is if she has already had the baby. You don't nobly sacrifice your own unborn child; it's a contradiction in terms.

AGRA may have a family; Mary's status as an orphan is fictional, so there may be some scope for close relatives wanting to adopt the baby, but like you I really cannot see how they are going to do it...
 

 

January 23, 2014 7:57 pm  #25


Re: Mary's Death

Making Mary a definitive good guy or bad guy , or having her hang around too long would be out of the Sherlock box.
I would be surprised if they did that , it would be new and interesting though, and maybe a sign they would do it in other areas, even newer and more interesting.

What would be surprising (coming from this team) would be something boring ordinary and unrelated to a complex dramatic plot...so i am going to go with at the end of series4 a random everyday ordinary car crash kills them. Thus the bromance continues stronger and more united in grief during the hiatus.
By series5....back to the story.
Heh.

N.B Another truely interesting option is for Mary/child to not die...but be out of the story...go back into hiding from bad guys or witness protection cia or a divorce. However here we need a strong reason for John not to go with them..e.g not the baby's father.
This is outside the box and leaves the other areas guessing games going.

Last edited by lil (January 25, 2014 4:09 am)

 

February 4, 2014 8:22 am  #26


Re: Mary's Death

The Mary storyline really intrigues me. I was convinced Mary would be dead by the end of series 3, I was wrong. So I am quite careful predicting anything concerning her for S4.
But I guess Gatiss and Moffat knew that everybody expected Mary not to last longer than just one series, so they possibly just tricked us again. I'm curious what they have in store for her. It could be anything from housewife/mother, who doesn't get in the way much (which would be just boring and thus seems the most unlikely option) to her going bad again, goingt into hiding, sacrificing herself, dying in an accident. There are so many options around.
But I'm certain that we are going to learn more about her past. I think CAM isn't the only one with an interest in her, so I guess her previous life is going to catch up with her at some point. If they stay true to canon with her storyline it seems very likely she doesn't make it to the end of series 4, which could result in the terrifying series 5 Moffat hinted at.
But then it's Moffat and he can't be trusted anyway...


------------------------------------------------------------------

"When you walk with Sherlock Holmes, you see the battlefield" M.H.

"My brother has the brain of scientist or a philosopher, and yet he elects to be a detective...what might we deduce about his heart?" M.H.

"Home is now behind you, the world is ahead."
 
 

February 5, 2014 6:55 am  #27


Re: Mary's Death

I was convinced they'd keep to canon and kill Mary off, but the pregnancy threw me and now I won't be surprised if she remains in the show - apart from anything else, there seems to be a lot of affection for Amanda, and I think they'll be reluctant to write her out.
I keep changing my mind about this, actually but at the moment I feel sure she will stay in till the end!

Last edited by Tinks (February 5, 2014 6:56 am)


"And in the end,
The Love you take
Is equal to the Love you make"
                                             The Beatles
 

February 5, 2014 12:09 pm  #28


Re: Mary's Death

I wonder whether they will start series 4 with Mary and John in mourning - she lost the baby through miscarriage not long after series 3 ended. That would get the baby theme out of the way straight away(sorry baby!).

Then I think she will die protecting either Sherlock or John, or both, in some dangerous situation, and will die in John's arms. Maybe they were initially protecting her when someone from her past came back for revenge, but the tables turn and she ends up saving their lives. So she dies a hero. I think to make her evil would be wrong.

That's my two cents worth anyway.


 

February 5, 2014 12:42 pm  #29


Re: Mary's Death

I don´t like her or the baby dying. Couldn´t they just live happily in the house and John work with Sherlock?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
..I've always assumed that love is a dangerous disadvantage. Thank you for the final proof...
 

February 5, 2014 1:16 pm  #30


Re: Mary's Death

I don't like the baby dying either - it doesn't " fit" with this show, imo - and it's one too many tragedies for John.
There wasn't a baby in ACDs version, as far as I can remember, but Watson was much older than "our" Watson when he was widowed, so maybe they can keep Mary in the show and say it's still in keeping with canon because she doesn't die until much later in their lives.
In which case I wish even more that they'd chosen a different way to ramp up the drama other than her shooting Sherlock - why couldn't someone else have shot him and Mary be the one to save him?
Oh well - I suppose I'll get over it - eventually:D


"And in the end,
The Love you take
Is equal to the Love you make"
                                             The Beatles
 

February 5, 2014 1:26 pm  #31


Re: Mary's Death

/love your signature, Tinks!/


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
..I've always assumed that love is a dangerous disadvantage. Thank you for the final proof...
 

February 5, 2014 1:34 pm  #32


Re: Mary's Death

Mrs.Wenceslas wrote:

/love your signature, Tinks!/

 
Thank you
Yours is pretty cool, too


"And in the end,
The Love you take
Is equal to the Love you make"
                                             The Beatles
 

February 5, 2014 3:40 pm  #33


Re: Mary's Death

Just joking when I say this but maybe the way to deal with Mary and the baby is to change the time line and the next episodes all take place before TRF and show us the cases that Sherlock alluded to at the wedding.  I'd love to see how the elephant got in the room or what was in that matchbox .


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And I said "dangerous" and here you are.

You. It's always you. John Watson, you keep me right.

 

February 5, 2014 4:02 pm  #34


Re: Mary's Death

that would be also nice...but hardly probable considering the "Moriarty" thing


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
..I've always assumed that love is a dangerous disadvantage. Thank you for the final proof...
 

February 5, 2014 11:45 pm  #35


Re: Mary's Death

I think Mary is going to die while pregnant. I don't see adding a baby being a good thing for the show in the long run (although I do want to see Sherlock awkwardly babysit!). 

I want some kind of dramatic death. Like.... Sherlock and Mary have been captured by a villain (Moriarty?) and John only has time to save one person. He thinks he has time to save both, but of course he doesn't. Then I want to see some sort of soul-crushing death scene for Mary, because what's an episode of Sherlock without the feels?! Then Sherlock feels guilty so he will be very kind to John. John obviously will be a mess after this and will probably move back in with Sherlock as he recovers emotionally. Then slowly, with the help of Sherlock he gets better and they continue solving crimes. Fin.  

 

March 3, 2014 6:56 pm  #36


Re: Mary's Death

However hard I try I just cannot like mary. I mean she shot sherlock and I feel like she came between sherlock and john, I find her really irritating! And breath....


Don't talk out loud Anderson, you lower the IQ of the whole street,
 

March 3, 2014 8:14 pm  #37


Re: Mary's Death

Noooo, I don't want to see John grieving AGAIN. 


"Storming, enjoying, planning, loving, cautioning,
Backing and filling, appearing and disappearing,
I tread day and night such roads."
Walt Whitman

 
 

March 3, 2014 8:39 pm  #38


Re: Mary's Death

Ozymandias wrote:

Noooo, I don't want to see John grieving AGAIN. 

Seconded. I really hope that whatever Moftiss have up their sleeve, it doesn't involve John looking tragic. Martin is a very fine actor but he doesn't have the face for it ...
 

 

March 3, 2014 9:38 pm  #39


Re: Mary's Death

I think Moftiss are fanboys when it comes to Martin acting emotional!
And he's very very good at it.  But I agree - I don't want any more of it for a while.
Whether they feel the same remains to be seen, of course.


"And in the end,
The Love you take
Is equal to the Love you make"
                                             The Beatles
 

March 3, 2014 11:13 pm  #40


Re: Mary's Death

I would be sorely disappointed if Mary and her child will be just killed off in S4. I hate it when a TV series such as „Sherlock“ includes a plot in which an unborn child dies. It seems like too serious a plot for a series written partially as a comedy and it reeks of lazy writing to me.
 


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

Board footera

 

Powered by Boardhost. Create a Free Forum