SolarSystem wrote:

But if she knocked him unconscious...?
Okay, alright... darn plot device, right?

Yep. And: After all, he's a drama queen!

ancientsgate wrote:

SolarSystem wrote:

Well, almost everything in almost every scene is a plot device. What does that mean then, that we should stop talking about it because it's just a plot device? What's the use of a forum like this then?

Yes, let's shut the whole forum down-- everything we're posting here is of no use, don't you think?

I only meant that we need to not take everything they said and did in the show quite so seriously, and for god's sake, very little of it is going to gibe with reality, so we shouldn't expect it to. It's fiction, written by writers who don't know the first thing about medical and legal issues. In fact, most of the TV legal and medical stuff, filmed on either side of the pond, is waaaaay removed from how things really work in the real world, what consequences match up with what, etc. The writers are more worried about moving their story ahead, using plot devices to get the viewer where they want them to go, than about getting it right about where to shoot people, how and why they die, the legal consequences of murdering someone right in front of witnesses, etc.

Well, the title of this thread is "How Mary could have shot Sherlock...", and that basically is what we're talking about here. It seems that nobody here has the necessary medical knowledge to discuss this from a medical point of view, then again that's not really what I'm interested in anyway.
I'm interested in finding out what Mary's intention was when she shot Sherlock. And from what I see she deliberately risked Sherlock's death. If she had wanted to be on the safe side, she should have taken a shot which most likely had given Sherlock more than three minutes. And from what I know - and yes, I'm not an expert - a shot to the leg or the shoulder might have done the trick. It just would have looked better to me, it would have made it easier for me to believe that she only intended to wound him, not to kill him.

Swanpride wrote:

If she really wanted to take him out, she could have done it in the hospital.

Maybe at that point she didn't want to take him out any longer. She had time to think the whole thing through, to think about alternatives, other options and might have come up with something which didn't require Sherlock to be dead.

Last edited by SolarSystem (February 3, 2014 8:55 pm)

Perhaps Sherlock was thinking about John and the baby more than himself, and also thinking that Mary did the logical thing for the situation, just as he would've done--and indeed he did in a way: He used a gun to solve the problem. Mary and Sherlock were both willing to shoot even though their literal lives were not immediately in danger. Mary could've run; Sherlock could've attacked CAM physically to relieve the pressure if nothing else.. What does that say about both of them that they pulled a trigger? Maybe they are not so smart after all. Sometimes surrender is the only path, they say. 

I'm not happy with that plot device---shooting someone you know to save your cover or to save them from being executed, or to save someone's life down the line. It's been used and used in many variations and always seems a stretch to me, no matter which show. But I still loved HLV. Seeing Cumberbatch emote pain brings out the poor baby in me so bad. And the Moriarty taunting scenes were intensely wonderful, all the way back up those fabulous stairs to LIFE! I can hear that little heartbeat now, picking up on the monitor. So yes, they forgave Mary but maybe if she hadn't been pregnant others may not have been so forgiving? 

It was very entertaining. 

Last edited by FoxSparrow (February 3, 2014 9:55 pm)

Rocks and hard places come to mind. Dressed like cat woman, or an escapee from the batcave, she obviously somehow found her way into that super-secure office or apartment or whatever it was, with the sole intent of offing CAM so she could shut him up permanently. But then that damned Sherlock showed up, so there went her Plan A, Plan B (if she had one) or any other suitable plan. There she stood between the scum of the universe and the object of both her dear husband's and her affections and loyalty, Sherlock Holmes, and now what was she to do? She was literally and metaphorically stuck between the two men, between whatever options she thought she had, etc.

But this thread is supposed to be about how she could have shot Sherlock and yet by the end of the episode, she was not only back into S and J's good graces, she was getting hugs, kisses, mucho affirmations and (!!) Sherlock killed a man for her! God, it was like something out of a romance novel-- suppose the showrunners read those bodice-ripper tomes?

The collective forgiveness is a plot device as well. In real life, her ass would have been in jail for a good long time. But as I've already said, this has nothing to do with real life. In our story, she's pregnant and vulnerable, desperately in love with the best thing that ever happened to her--  John Watson--  and although she did some regrettable things in the past and present, I believe the writers want her around and sane and functioning as John's wifey for at least season 4. So there ya go-- all is forgiven.

ancientsgate wrote:

Willow wrote:

  But she did shoot to kill; he died, remember?

She did not take what is known as a "kill shot", which is through the heart.  And she didn't aim for his head. Anyone can eventually die from any kind of gunshot wound, of course-- even a flesh wound in an arm or leg or side could kill them, from blood loss alone. Never aim your gun at anyone you don't want to kill is usually the first rule in any gun training class, after all. But if she'd wanted to make SURE he was dead, she never would have shot him where she did.

And anyway, the show is called Sherlock. She couldn't kill him, because they need him for S4. And him being dead-but-not-dead is so two years ago. *snerk*

I hesitate to trouble you with trifling details like facts, but the normal physiological range of placement of the heart ensures that people don't actually aim for the heart if they really, really want to kill someone; they go for the double tap head shots. That being the case John would have known instantly that Sherlock was dead and he would have gone straight after her; the only thing which kept him there was the fact that Sherlock wasn't dead and he needed to help him.

Which is why Mary didn't go for the double tap kill shots to the head but did go for the shot which had a very high probability of killing him in the near, but not immediate, future, thus solving at least one of her problems


 

Willow wrote:

SolarSystem wrote:

All that I have to say to this is that I don't believe for one second that Mary, trained CIA agent that she apparently is, wouldn't know where to aim either in order to shoot to kill or in order to 'securely' incapacitate someone without running the risk of him dying during the next three minutes. She knows exactly where she would have to shoot Sherlock so that he goes down and isn't able to do her any harm while she finishes whatever it is that she wants to finish - and there'd be more time than just three minutes to save him.
She put up with the possibility that Sherlock might die. And she explains herself why that is: Because she would never allow anything or anyone to endanger her relationship with John.

 
Which is for entirely selfish reasons.

She first came to our attention demanding to know how Sherlock could have caused so much pain to John by letting him think that he was dead; and then is perfectly prepared to inflict that pain on him again because the only things she cares about is what she wants., and what she wants is John

THIS.

Swanpride wrote:

If she really wanted to take him out, she could have done it in the hospital.

Not with the security and nurses watching, and her picture was on on all those cute cameras in the rooms

it's a tad embarrassing to be engaged in a quiet murder only to have people flooding in to the room
 

KeepersPrice wrote:

  In my mind, Sherlock killed the man for John, not Mary. Being with Mary puts John's life in danger if CAM spills her whereabouts to those that hate her - as he *flick* threatens he can. John is Sherlock's pressure point. CAM notes it and says something about how hard it was to find a pressure point for Sherlock, "But look how he cares about John Watson. His damsel in distress." (There's your bodice-ripper, AG ). Simplistically, John, Mary, and Sherlock are all sympatico in nature and personality which is probably why they can all forgive each other; but for me, all of Sherlock's sacrifices here are for John. John loves Mary therefore Sherlock will protect Mary and if Mary makes John happy then Sherlock will do whatever he can to ensure that his happiness remains in place. If, in the process, Mary and everyone of importance in the British government is saved, then all the better.

Yes, of course you're right. The killing of CAM was to benefit both John and Mary [as well as Queen and country], since the interests of one cannot be separated from the others.

The baby complicates things...  but then, babies always do, even for real people! A subject for another thread, undoubtedly.
 

KeepersPrice wrote:

ancientsgate wrote:

But this thread is supposed to be about how she could have shot Sherlock and yet by the end of the episode, she was not only back into S and J's good graces, she was getting hugs, kisses, mucho affirmations and (!!) Sherlock killed a man for her! God, it was like something out of a romance novel-- suppose the showrunners read those bodice-ripper tomes?

 
In my mind, Sherlock killed the man for John, not Mary. Being with Mary puts John's life in danger if CAM spills her whereabouts to those that hate her - as he *flick* threatens he can. John is Sherlock's pressure point. CAM notes it and says something about how hard it was to find a pressure point for Sherlock, "But look how he cares about John Watson. His damsel in distress." (There's your bodice-ripper, AG ). Simplistically, John, Mary, and Sherlock are all sympatico in nature and personality which is probably why they can all forgive each other; but for me, all of Sherlock's sacrifices here are for John. John loves Mary therefore Sherlock will protect Mary and if Mary makes John happy then Sherlock will do whatever he can to ensure that his happiness remains in place. If, in the process, Mary and everyone of importance in the British government is saved, then all the better.

Wholeheartedly agree!