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January 27, 2014 11:09 am  #1


Why does Janine think Sherlock lied to her?

Why does Janine think Sherlock lied to her?  From her point of view, Sherlock was on his way up in the lift/elevator with an engagement ring; then Janine gets a bump on the head and wakes up in emergency care;  her boss and the Security guard have also been knocked out; and Sherlock is in intensive care with a gunshot wound.  How does that add up to Sherlock lying to her? It sounds like an unfortunate coincidence that the assassin and Sherlock were in the penthouse at the same time (which is true). Her boss can't reveal to her what happened, because then he would have to identify the shooter; and anyway he doesn't know that Sherlock lied either. Mary won't tell.  John probably won't tell, because Sherlock has told him that he intends to marry Janine, and John will want to encourage that.

So, why?

Bob from Buckinghamshire

 

 

January 27, 2014 11:19 am  #2


Re: Why does Janine think Sherlock lied to her?

Sherlock told her that the engagement was just a fake to get to CAM. He announced that when they were in the lift. Maybe he send her an email or texted her. No need to show it.

 

January 27, 2014 11:40 am  #3


Re: Why does Janine think Sherlock lied to her?

I was just wondering the same thing just the other day! Perhaps John felt bad for her and let the cat out of the bag. 


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January 27, 2014 11:41 am  #4


Re: Why does Janine think Sherlock lied to her?

bsather wrote:

Why does Janine think Sherlock lied to her?  From her point of view, Sherlock was on his way up in the lift/elevator with an engagement ring; then Janine gets a bump on the head and wakes up in emergency care;  her boss and the Security guard have also been knocked out; and Sherlock is in intensive care with a gunshot wound.  How does that add up to Sherlock lying to her? It sounds like an unfortunate coincidence that the assassin and Sherlock were in the penthouse at the same time (which is true). Her boss can't reveal to her what happened, because then he would have to identify the shooter; and anyway he doesn't know that Sherlock lied either. Mary won't tell.  John probably won't tell, because Sherlock has told him that he intends to marry Janine, and John will want to encourage that.

So, why?

Bob from Buckinghamshire

 

Good question; I asked it elsewhere, from which you can deduce that I don't know the answer

About the only thing which is clear is that Janine's behaviour is extremely strange; if someone knocked me unconscious I would want to know why, and if my putative boyfriend was on the verge of death, found in the same place that I was, I would not assume that he was in some way to blame. At the very least I would want to talk about it, and yet she apparently ignores all those things and skips to making money and turning off Sherlock's morphine drip.

And then there's the Irish accent, which seems to have been turned up a notch or two since we first met her; Mofftiss may have been hinting at a connection with Moriarty. About the one thing I am sure of is that we will be seeing more of her in S4; she is linked in some way with Mary which has yet to be explained, and Mary had a confidant who has yet to be identified. All in all the pair of them make Irene Adler look like a model of virtue, which is quite an achievement

Incidentally, Sherlock told John in the lift that he wasn't really intending to marry her but we have no reason to believe that she overheard it; it doesn't seem likely that CAM's private lift would be wired for sound. Besides, by the time the lift reached the top Janine was unconscious with a wound to the head which means she was taken down almost immediately after S&J got into the lift. Sherlock was in no shape to do any emailing from his hospital bed and we don't see him using his phone there;  there was also the scene with Lestrade where John specifically tells him not to use his phone because of the medical equipment.

About the only route that we have is John telling Mary and Mary in turn telling Janine; if that is so then it's another example of John's inability to keep his mouth shut, and another example of Mary trying to damage Sherlock. It still doesn't explain Janine's curious lack of curiosity as to who knocked her out...
 

 

January 27, 2014 11:45 am  #5


Re: Why does Janine think Sherlock lied to her?

Sherlock:  Well, I’ll tell her that our entire relationship was a ruse to break into her boss’ office.
He did.

 

January 27, 2014 12:50 pm  #6


Re: Why does Janine think Sherlock lied to her?

Be wrote:

Sherlock:  Well, I’ll tell her that our entire relationship was a ruse to break into her boss’ office.
He did.

But when? And how?  And why is she so uninterested on who bopped her on the head? Janine is not the forgiving sort, as we know from the morphine drip, so why is she not interested in what the genius detective may have deduced about this?
 

 

January 27, 2014 12:58 pm  #7


Re: Why does Janine think Sherlock lied to her?

Swanpride wrote:

Or John did. If she even ever fell for Sherlock's ruse. I am still not sure who played whom.

Well, it certainly appears that John has a tendency to insert his foot in it as soon as he opens his mouth, but why does he feel compelled to tell Janine all about it when Sherlock is profoundly ill? Why isn't he focused on Sherlock?

I certainly agree that Janine is not what she appears to be; they were playing each other. But if she always knew this why was she so vindictive? Normal people do not turn morphine drips off...


 

 

January 27, 2014 3:25 pm  #8


Re: Why does Janine think Sherlock lied to her?

I don't think John left her unconscious and went to search Sherlock: more likely she wake up, he told her (more or less) what it was all about (she would be surprised to see him there) and went to discover what happened to Sherlock. Once she understood something was not right about the "proposal"  - well, even Magnussen probably told her this, before she was fired (and flicked?) - she had all the time to ask John for details: it is not that she visits Sherlock the morning after the shooting, some days have obviously passed.

 

January 27, 2014 4:31 pm  #9


Re: Why does Janine think Sherlock lied to her?

miriel68 wrote:

I don't think John left her unconscious and went to search Sherlock: more likely she wake up, he told her (more or less) what it was all about (she would be surprised to see him there) and went to discover what happened to Sherlock. Once she understood something was not right about the "proposal"  - well, even Magnussen probably told her this, before she was fired (and flicked?) - she had all the time to ask John for details: it is not that she visits Sherlock the morning after the shooting, some days have obviously passed.

Well, again I can see John being in one of his self righteous moods, but even John can probably think of more important things to do when he has two unconscious people to worry about than having a heart to heart chat with one of them about Sherlock's fake proposal; as soon as Janine recovered consciousness he would have gone to check the security guard, and from there to discover Sherlock who was very close to death.

And really, it was not John's place to talk to Janine about Sherlock's relationship, or lack of one, with Janine; John does not have the right to do so. Even if we ignore the breach of decorum- we're back to good manners territory-  the idea that a guy who is so conventionally in the 'don't talk about feelings' Male Default Setting would actually choose to get into a 'talk about feelings' when he doesn't have to seems to me to be downright bizarre.

I can, on the other hand, see him telling Mary about it, if only to explain to her what he was doing at CAM's office in the first place; Mary passing it on to Janine is far more plausible than John doing so. Mary wants Sherlock silenced, one way or another; Janine is, I think it fair to say, a very long way from being a nice person, which Mary undoubtedly knew. She could have been hoping that Janine would do it for her, and as I recall it is after Janine's visit that Sherlock goes AWOL; he would have no difficulty in deducing that if someone could block the morphine drip then someone could equally easily add something lethal to the morphine drip...



 

 

January 27, 2014 7:17 pm  #10


Re: Why does Janine think Sherlock lied to her?

Swanpride wrote:

Yeah, because naturally everything in this show is Mary's fault...

Honestly, Mary doesn't even know what Sherlock exactly did, and other stuff in mind than passing anything along to Janine.

Given that Janine was even fooled in the first place (she said it herself after all, she knows Sherlock, so would she have honestly fallen for this trick?), the moment she wakes up and John is there she would have put two and two together that he sneaked in with Sherlock and that the proposal was fake. So she either confronted John about it or decided to go ahead and get her revenge without confirmation.

Well, no. Quite a lot of stuff in this show is John's fault; throwing a massive temper tantrum whilst his best friend is bleeding to death is not the most mature of actions, particularly since John has no conceivable excuse for not noticing that his best friend was bleeding to death. As I noted a while back, this is not difficult; first year medical students know the signs of this,  and John was a trauma surgeon who would have seen it in reality hundreds of times. It's an ingrained response; rather like muscle memory so you can do it when you've spent the weekend on call and are exceedingly short on sleep.  It really is just as well Sherlock had called the ambulance because if he'd relied on John he would have been dead, thus providing the ironic counter balance to Sherlock's best man speech in which he praised John as being the person who saved lives.

So, I'm certainly not apportioning blame solely to Mary; there's plenty of it to go around, and I may well be trying to avoid loading more blame on John's shoulders because he had already screwed it up so comprehensively. Sherlock didn't use his brain, and he really should have done, though he paid a pretty hefty price for that, and Janine turns out to be the sort of person who thinks that switching off someone's morphine drip is a fun thing to do.

However, lessons were indubitably learned. Indeed, one of the lessons Sherlock learned was that intervening to save someone's life gets you killed, which may have rather more consequences than the 4 minutes in the air, and that offering to help someone gets you killed as well. That sets up fascinating possibilities for the future, but I still feel regret for Lady Smallwood, and her husband who might have lived if Mary had not shot Sherlock....
 

 

January 27, 2014 8:32 pm  #11


Re: Why does Janine think Sherlock lied to her?

Swanpride wrote:

You mean if Mary had went ahead and shot Magnusson.

 

No; I mean that Sherlock was sincere in his offer to help her and that if she had refrained from shooting anyone Sherlock might have been able to devise a plan to get her and his client Lady Smallwood off the hook.

Worst case scenario for Mary would be Mary telling Mycroft everything she knows in exchange for the Witness Protection Scheme; Mycroft would know perfectly well that he was CAM's target, which would seal the deal for Mary, and put Mycroft in direct confrontation with CAM.

And once Mycroft is in direct confrontation with CAM then he and Sherlock would put together a much better plan; Mycroft is, after all, as good, if not better, than Sherlock and has immense resources at his disposal. But Mary preferred shooting Sherlock to accepting his offer to help her, and all the consequences stemmed from that fact...


 

 

January 28, 2014 2:16 am  #12


Re: Why does Janine think Sherlock lied to her?

Willow wrote:

Swanpride wrote:

Yeah, because naturally everything in this show is Mary's fault...

Honestly, Mary doesn't even know what Sherlock exactly did, and other stuff in mind than passing anything along to Janine.

Given that Janine was even fooled in the first place (she said it herself after all, she knows Sherlock, so would she have honestly fallen for this trick?), the moment she wakes up and John is there she would have put two and two together that he sneaked in with Sherlock and that the proposal was fake. So she either confronted John about it or decided to go ahead and get her revenge without confirmation.

Well, no. Quite a lot of stuff in this show is John's fault; throwing a massive temper tantrum whilst his best friend is bleeding to death is not the most mature of actions, particularly since John has no conceivable excuse for not noticing that his best friend was bleeding to death. As I noted a while back, this is not difficult; first year medical students know the signs of this, and John was a trauma surgeon who would have seen it in reality hundreds of times. It's an ingrained response; rather like muscle memory so you can do it when you've spent the weekend on call and are exceedingly short on sleep. It really is just as well Sherlock had called the ambulance because if he'd relied on John he would have been dead, thus providing the ironic counter balance to Sherlock's best man speech in which he praised John as being the person who saved lives.

So, I'm certainly not apportioning blame solely to Mary; there's plenty of it to go around, and I may well be trying to avoid loading more blame on John's shoulders because he had already screwed it up so comprehensively. Sherlock didn't use his brain, and he really should have done, though he paid a pretty hefty price for that, and Janine turns out to be the sort of person who thinks that switching off someone's morphine drip is a fun thing to do.

However, lessons were indubitably learned. Indeed, one of the lessons Sherlock learned was that intervening to save someone's life gets you killed, which may have rather more consequences than the 4 minutes in the air, and that offering to help someone gets you killed as well. That sets up fascinating possibilities for the future, but I still feel regret for Lady Smallwood, and her husband who might have lived if Mary had not shot Sherlock....
 

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. 

Maybe it's time to stop blaming Sherlock for everything. 

 

February 3, 2014 8:30 pm  #13


Re: Why does Janine think Sherlock lied to her?

bsather wrote:

Why does Janine think Sherlock lied to her?  From her point of view, Sherlock was on his way up in the lift/elevator with an engagement ring; then Janine gets a bump on the head and wakes up in emergency care;  her boss and the Security guard have also been knocked out; and Sherlock is in intensive care with a gunshot wound.  How does that add up to Sherlock lying to her? It sounds like an unfortunate coincidence that the assassin and Sherlock were in the penthouse at the same time (which is true). Her boss can't reveal to her what happened, because then he would have to identify the shooter; and anyway he doesn't know that Sherlock lied either. Mary won't tell.  John probably won't tell, because Sherlock has told him that he intends to marry Janine, and John will want to encourage that.

So, why?

Bob from Buckinghamshire

 

Janine woke up and saw John in her office. It was strange as no one takes a friend with him when he proposes his girlfriend. So she asked John what was he doing there and he either did not want to lie her or lied but unsuccesfully because Janine is clever.

But I suspect Janine to be something else then she pretends to be.  Or maybe CAM had something on her and used her against Sherlock to get information for instance about his drug addiction. 

 

February 3, 2014 9:23 pm  #14


Re: Why does Janine think Sherlock lied to her?

I suppose that John told her the truth about Sherlock. Even though he doesn't usually get involved in other people's business, it seems likely to me that he told her when Sherlock was in hospital. Someone must have informed her that her boyfriend had been injured and I can't really see John watching Janine sitting at her boyfriend's bedside for days, and not telling her that the whole relationship was a ruse. Sherlock would have told her anyway as soon as he was conscious, so it was nicer to just tell her right away.


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"Yes, of course I forgive you."
 

February 3, 2014 9:58 pm  #15


Re: Why does Janine think Sherlock lied to her?

She was probably questioned by the police and may have realized then that something had gone very wrong. After all her "boyfriend" had been shot in CAM's office. How and when was Mycroft notified? Was Scotland Yard called in? Was Janine taken to the hospital with Sherlock? She had been knocked out. Surely she would have required an examination or possibly a scan. She may have found herself in the hospital for an overnight observation. Perhaps she got a visit from John or even Mary who told her the relationship was a sham. Yikes so many questions to ponder. I need to rewatch the episode.

 

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