I agree. But it was long (too long for some of us?) and still quite unusal for the show Sherlock. That's what I meant with "doesn't fit completely". It was very suprising IMO. Which doesn't have to be bad, don't get me wrong.

sj4iy wrote:

Mattlocked wrote:

I think this is exactly what Staying Alive means. The mind palace from the outside - and now from the inside. And very detailed. Very. I like it, but I get your point. I think it was brilliantly made but somehow it doesn't fit completely.

I thought it was absolutely perfect and shows the speed of his actual thoughts.  I have no qualms about saying that it was easily one of the best scenes I've ever seen in television.

I agree. Visually and aurally stunning; and a unique take on the last few seconds of life.
 

Mattlocked wrote:

I agree. But it was long (too long for some of us?) and still quite unusal for the show Sherlock. That's what I meant with "doesn't fit completely". It was very suprising IMO. Which doesn't have to be bad, don't get me wrong.

But that's the point.  Sherlock thinks SO INCREDIBLY FAST that what takes us 4 or 5 minutes to watch takes him just 3 seconds to think.  And there are different parts of his thoughts running around at the same time.  It's so layered that you can't do that sequence in less time and have it make the same sort of impact.

sj4iy wrote:

Mattlocked wrote:

I agree. But it was long (too long for some of us?) and still quite unusal for the show Sherlock. That's what I meant with "doesn't fit completely". It was very suprising IMO. Which doesn't have to be bad, don't get me wrong.

But that's the point.  Sherlock thinks SO INCREDIBLY FAST that what takes us 4 or 5 minutes to watch takes him just 3 seconds to think.  And there are different parts of his thoughts running around at the same time.  It's so layered that you can't do that sequence in less time and have it make the same sort of impact.

I agree! The way in which they visualised this was just stunning, absolutely stunning, I loved every single second of it. And I don't think it went on for too long, not at all... it's not the only sequence in S3 with which they took their time. I mean, just look at Sherlock's wedding speech...
In my opinion it was a great way to take the idea of the Mind Palace one step further, so for me it was a positive development of an idea we already knew from earlier episodes.

Me too. One of my absolute highlights in series 3.  

Some beautiful scenes in season 3 and lots to think about.
Benedict really came into his own as an Actor on the small screen (not a criticism of his acting in 1&2 but you can see this season where he's learnt to tone things down ever so slightly for TV)
But all that said I'm not arguing with those who have reservations with this episode - I do hope they pull it back towards canon a bit in season 4.

I didn't like HLV either. 

Now, don't get me wrong, I loved the Mind Palace scenes, especially young Sherlock and Redbeard. That pulls the heartstrings. 

But the episode just wasn't tense. There seem to be nothing at stake. Yes, yes, John and Mary and yes, I got a bit scared for Mary, but when the villian revealed that he just carried the information in his head. 

I knew what Sherlock was going to do. Bye, bye, CAM. 

The whole song in dance of Sherlock going away six months to a mission. Please! I knew he wasn't going to be going there. XD They won't kill him off! 

So..they pull up this Is Moriarty really dead or who is using his image thing? 

To me, the episode was like: Ooooo! John and Mary are in trouble! CAM has information to destroy everything they hold dear? Sherlock, would he find it? Would he save John and Mary? Huh? Mind Palace? Oh! That's easy. Okay, he is dead! No more CAM. He is deaded. OH Look Moriarty made be back! Bye!

*headdesk*  

I'm sorry to anyone who loved this episode. Please, if you loved this episode, don't take offense (Alot of people seem to enjoy Series three and I just want to make sure no one tries to bite my head off like I seen in other places.) I just felt this way about the episode. I just felt like the tension was unnesscary because this villian wasn't that great. We know Sherlock isn't going to die nor was he going to be killed off. Copying that whole setup from TRF didn't suit well with me. Because I know they won't kill off the main character. 

 

Lily wrote:

After coming to terms with this episode not being what I had been expecting at all, I manage to be more accepting of it. Still I could write a really long lists of things that bothered me, and that makes me a bit sad because I really don't want to be that negative. I have never been so critical about a Sherlock episode ever before; for example I didn't like HOB much but that was simply because I didn't find it that interesting/didn't enjoy the atmosphere that much. But it didn't feel wrong to me. While watching HLV I keep getting this feeling that something is just off about
it, certain things not working or not adding up in the
overall picture.
I'm still upset over the whole Mary arch. When I first saw her in TEH I knew that I would love her. She was such a great character and I really enjoyed her presence, especially in TSOT. I'd been hoping that the thing she was lying about would be something that wouldn't have such a big impact on
her character or change my whole perception of her. I was thinking, they'd probably not go for the 'secretly a killer/spy/traitor whatever'-story because I thought that it would diminish her character, in addition to being terribly cliché. I just wanted her to be that kind, clever, funny and interesting woman who loves her husband and is accepting of his
relationship with Sherlock. She could have been just that, she didn't need to be a former killer machine with a nebulous past. I don't know what to make of it, it just doesn't feel right to me and it doesn't add up with what we've seen of her in TEH and TSOT. Her shock and disbelief regarding Sherlock's return, after seeing what pain his death
had caused John, seemed so honest and genuine. Didn't she even for one second consider the fact that she was doing more or less the same thing and what pain it would cause John if he ever found out? Was she just completely pushing that aside? It makes sense, though, why she liked Sherlock and why she was so accepting of him. Then again it
doesn't really add up why she would be so keen on getting John and Sherlock back together when she should have been aware of the fact that someone like Sherlock would quite possibly figure out her secret sooner or later.
I never liked the 'We don't tell the actor the whole truth about the character so it won't influence how
the character is presented and the viewers won't figure it out too soon'. It doesn't make any sense to me. Of course it would influence the way the character is played, that is exactly the way it should be. How can a character be realistic if you hold back vital information to the actor?
It would be easier if I simply disliked Mary, but this
way I just don't know how to make sense of her.

Agree 100% with all you say - except I liked HoB!
Something's off - whether it's deliberate or not, I don't know.
There's a lot to love about it still, but I hope it "rights itself" in season 4.
(P.s - love your signature!)

Last edited by Tinks (February 2, 2014 9:34 pm)

Willow wrote:

Tinks wrote:

Lily wrote:

After coming to terms with this episode not being what I had been expecting at all, I manage to be more accepting of it. Still I could write a really long lists of things that bothered me, and that makes me a bit sad because I really don't want to be that negative. I have never been so critical about a Sherlock episode ever before; for example I didn't like HOB much but that was simply because I didn't find it that interesting/didn't enjoy the atmosphere that much. But it didn't feel wrong to me. While watching HLV I keep getting this feeling that something is just off about
it, certain things not working or not adding up in the
overall picture.
I'm still upset over the whole Mary arch. When I first saw her in TEH I knew that I would love her. She was such a great character and I really enjoyed her presence, especially in TSOT. I'd been hoping that the thing she was lying about would be something that wouldn't have such a big impact on
her character or change my whole perception of her. I was thinking, they'd probably not go for the 'secretly a killer/spy/traitor whatever'-story because I thought that it would diminish her character, in addition to being terribly cliché. I just wanted her to be that kind, clever, funny and interesting woman who loves her husband and is accepting of his
relationship with Sherlock. She could have been just that, she didn't need to be a former killer machine with a nebulous past. I don't know what to make of it, it just doesn't feel right to me and it doesn't add up with what we've seen of her in TEH and TSOT. Her shock and disbelief regarding Sherlock's return, after seeing what pain his death
had caused John, seemed so honest and genuine. Didn't she even for one second consider the fact that she was doing more or less the same thing and what pain it would cause John if he ever found out? Was she just completely pushing that aside? It makes sense, though, why she liked Sherlock and why she was so accepting of him. Then again it
doesn't really add up why she would be so keen on getting John and Sherlock back together when she should have been aware of the fact that someone like Sherlock would quite possibly figure out her secret sooner or later.
I never liked the 'We don't tell the actor the whole truth about the character so it won't influence how
the character is presented and the viewers won't figure it out too soon'. It doesn't make any sense to me. Of course it would influence the way the character is played, that is exactly the way it should be. How can a character be realistic if you hold back vital information to the actor?
It would be easier if I simply disliked Mary, but this
way I just don't know how to make sense of her.

Agree 100% with all you say - except I liked HoB!
Something's off - whether it's deliberate or not, I don't know.
There's a lot to love about it still, but I hope it "rights itself" in season 4.
(P.s - love your signature!)

 
Lily,

I do sympathise with you and other people who found HLV disappointing; I enjoyed it greatly but I can certainly understand that for many people Mary's 'mixed messages' were just too much to take. It may be that, simply because I am certain that Mary will exit in S4, I'm not worried about it turning into 'Four Go on an Adventure'; and, since I do not believe that Mofftiss actually admire their 'lethal killer nurse', I do not see them writing a script about her nobly sacrificing herself for others.

In canon John Watson is noted for his very poor judgement when it comes to women; it comes up time and time again. Mofftiss have put a darker twist on it, but it's still recognisably the John Watson created by ACD, who was a sucker for a pretty face and a sob story. Our John is running true to form in that respect.

And in reality, people who make their living killing other people often have very good acting skills because they are very useful in getting close to targets; it is her betrayal of John, which is almost as harrowing as her (very nearly) murder of Sherlock, that makes us doubt whether she loved him at any level above perhaps a possessive obsessional fixation.

I think that Mofftiss do have reasons for this which will become clear in S4, but once again I should be asleep so I will leave it at that for the time being

This is a wonderful, thoughtful comment-- and it stood out for me because we never really seem to look at John's flaws, his weaknesses-- and character flaws are part of what fleshes out a character to make them compelling; someone we can all relate to . So, thanks, awesome comment! :-)
 

lil wrote:

Can just see SH saying something like...you think thats wise John....because...well the last one killed me.....twice John...twice!
Heh

Or,  maybe he'll get the chance in a future Series to re-use the line "You know what happened to the other one..."