BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Mary

lil · January 22, 2014 9:45 pm

Well..lots of ideas in all the threads about marmite Mary.

Yet within the narrative only 3 ways to go really.
What I mean by narrative is..imagine in idk 20 years..some kid runs up n says hey you liked Sherlock ..what was that all about granma/pa..
when we get to Mary it will be...

1 John married Mary and she got sick and died..like almost all version go .

2 She married John and was good because...,,,. And then died.

3 She married John and but was bad because....And then died.

Mary is contraversial I think because the team look like doing something different from the normal/expected narrative.
Of course its brilliant because we all get to have fun speculating for now..and it's great publicity for them (cynical here)..and as we can clearly see very interesting..so kudos@them.

We could blah clues /good /bad all year...but ultimately I don't think/see them taking a huge step too far from 1.

As an iconic figure..SH..is the most portrayed fictional character ever..and as we know his narrative has been passed from generation to generation.,the ACD victorian take.,, the first modern take., the wartime take..well yeah.
The writers I think know they have to , and do respect that.

So we are left with something really good to ballance out the it looks bad now.., and then died.

It matters not one jot what you do in life Watson.What maters is what you make people think you can do.

Last edited by lil (January 22, 2014 10:19 pm)

bohemian_rhapsody · January 22, 2014 11:24 pm

The only thing I hope for Mary the character is that they will make something complex and intelligent out of the new situation.

I just don't see how a trained killer miraculously turns into a loving and caring mother who also happens to be a hobby-detective from time to time. That'd be plain awful, I'm afraid. Also I find it hard to believe that Sherlock (or Mycroft) would let her get away with it. I do not have a probelm with Watson being married but with this wife the writers somehow managed to haven written themselves into a corner - there will be no easy way out.

But despite all that I like how Ms Abbington plays Mary. She tricked us all. I truly liked her in the first episode because of her wonderful charme and very willingly ignored "liar" popping up.. that was very well done.

Willow · January 22, 2014 11:56 pm

bohemian_rhapsody wrote:
The only thing I hope for Mary the character is that they will make something complex and intelligent out of the new situation.

I just don't see how a trained killer miraculously turns into a loving and caring mother who also happens to be a hobby-detective from time to time. That'd be plain awful, I'm afraid. Also I find it hard to believe that Sherlock (or Mycroft) would let her get away with it. I do not have a probelm with Watson being married but with this wife the writers somehow managed to haven written themselves into a corner - there will be no easy way out.

But despite all that I like how Ms Abbington plays Mary. She tricked us all. I truly liked her in the first episode because of her wonderful charme and very willingly ignored "liar" popping up.. that was very well done.

According to the DVD they didn't give her the script for HLV until after they'd finished shooting the first two; they were worried that it would affect the way she acted if she knew that she was a wet work specialist who was going to come very close to killing Sherlock, notwithstanding the fact that Sherlock had apparently saved John's life in the first episode.

The writers have said that they cannot have a lethal killer nurse following S&J around as they investigate, shooting anyone she thinks might pose a risk to them; it wouldn't be a very interesting show, and it wouldn't be Sherlock. I agree entirely!

sj4iy · January 23, 2014 12:10 am

Swanpride wrote:
Maybe because AA didn't know what would happen in episode 3. They didn't tell her, so she played the character straight (and was very happy when she learned that she would be allowed to play more than the nice supportive love-interest).

Let's be honest, there aren't many roles like that for female actresses. The Media tends to reduce them to "the mother, the whore, or the fighter". But woman are not that simple.

I really don't see why an action hero (or fictional criminal) is allowed to have a family, but when a female fighter wants to be a mother, there are suddenly raised brows. Why shouldn't Mary feel bad for her past? She picked nurse as new job, perhaps to make up for the lifes she took. Why shouldn't she be a good and loving mother? Obviously nurturing is not that far removed from her nature, considering that the neighbors come to her for help.

I honestly wonder what the feeling about Mary would be if she hadn't shot Sherlock. I think some of the resentment comes from the fact that people just love the character of Sherlock so much that they can't bring themselves to like someone that hurts him, even if he forgives that person for it.

sj4iy · January 23, 2014 12:53 am

Swanpride wrote:
That she shot him is one point, but I think it is also connected with the fear that she disturbs the bromance.

That, too. People were already worried about what she'd do to their relationship.

mrshouse · January 23, 2014 7:28 am

Swanpride wrote:
Maybe because AA didn't know what would happen in episode 3. They didn't tell her, so she played the character straight (and was very happy when she learned that she would be allowed to play more than the nice supportive love-interest).

Let's be honest, there aren't many roles like that for female actresses. The Media tends to reduce them to "the mother, the whore, or the fighter". But woman are not that simple.

I really don't see why an action hero (or fictional criminal) is allowed to have a family, but when a female fighter wants to be a mother, there are suddenly raised brows. Why shouldn't Mary feel bad for her past? She picked nurse as new job, perhaps to make up for the lifes she took. Why shouldn't she be a good and loving mother? Obviously nurturing is not that far removed from her nature, considering that the neighbors come to her for help.

I agree, swanpride, with your comments on interesting roles for actresses. They're definetely not to be found on the pavements.
But I have to disagree on your views, that mary felt overly sorry for her old life style, regarding that she was very much ready in more than one scene to slip back into old patterns. It has already been discussed that this makes her hard to trust in future and it has also been discussed, that it felt strange for a lot of fans, that i.e. sherlock forgave her that easily.
I don't care, if she is a good and loving mother, might be, might not, don't know. I want to see how this will be integrated into the new series, if it could just stay in the background a bit. I have a feeling lots of fans here are not too happy of a toddler throwing up his mummys milk on johns jumpers or sherlocks expensive suits while mummy is out and about killing whoever it might be next time.
As for the bromance, I'm proud to say, yes, I think we would definetly be ready for a bit more "will-they-won't they?" between two men, why not??? Having found this pairing was such a gift and I#m a bit angry at mofftiss that the are throwing it away to go just conservative family patterns!
Would be much more of a statement.

besleybean · January 23, 2014 7:30 am

Mark and Steven are remaining true to The Canon.

mrshouse · January 23, 2014 8:43 am

Interesting. But as far as I remember there were at least two wives involved?

Willow · January 23, 2014 9:20 am

mrshouse wrote:
Interesting. But as far as I remember there were at least two wives involved?

In canon, yes. And there's all the stuff about Mormons in SIS, so I'm praying that Moftiss don't decide to kill two birds with one stone and provide us with a poly John

mrshouse · January 23, 2014 9:24 am

Willow wrote:
mrshouse wrote:
Interesting. But as far as I remember there were at least two wives involved?
In canon, yes. And there's all the stuff about Mormons in SIS, so I'm praying that Moftiss don't decide to kill two birds with one stone and provide us with a poly John

UAHH, this gets to be gross! Of course I meant that in canon he married twice! The second time after being a widower...

lil · January 23, 2014 3:34 pm

sj4iy wrote:
Swanpride wrote:
That she shot him is one point, but I think it is also connected with the fear that she disturbs the bromance.
That, too. People were already worried about what she'd do to their relationship.

Exactly so here.

Sherlock is a story about an extraordinary man who does extraordinary things to solve crime and not be bored (Morality tale), who learns about being ordinary and human through his relationship with John (romantic tale).

Cleverly Mary disturbs us because she challenges both our morals and the romantic John/Sherlock storyline.

Ultimately they will balance it out..to do that we need something good that is unifying for sh/jw.

Marva · January 23, 2014 3:38 pm

lil wrote:
sj4iy wrote:
Swanpride wrote:
That she shot him is one point, but I think it is also connected with the fear that she disturbs the bromance.
That, too. People were already worried about what she'd do to their relationship.

Exactly so here.

Sherlock is a story about an extraordinary man who does extraordinary things to solve crime and not be bored (Morality tale), who learns about being ordinary and human through his relationship with John (romantic tale).

Cleverly Mary disturbs us because she challenges both our morals and the romantic John/Sherlock storyline.

Ultimately they will balance it out..to do that we need something good that is unifying for sh/jw.

Lil, I think you nailed it. Hats off!

silverblaze · January 23, 2014 7:43 pm

I don't understand that fear of disturbing the bromance. It can only make it more interesting/complicated and create more drama that will deepen it. Canon tells us that the bromance isn't going away just because Mary is there. Moftiss are wiser than to stray from canon at this point, they might take a little detour but everything is about that friendship, they even said so themselves. Nah, whatever challenges Mary is gonna give them, the frienship will only deepen in the end.

besleybean · January 23, 2014 7:46 pm

Is it just 'friendship' the worriers are worrying about?!

Titania · January 23, 2014 8:55 pm

I love their close friendship, the way they interact together in 221B and outside of course, in a way, Mary compromises that equilibrium. I don't say that they can't be friend even close friends but it's not the same....
I miss just the 2 of them against the rest of the world

RavenMorganLeigh · January 24, 2014 7:05 am

sj4iy wrote:
Swanpride wrote:
Maybe because AA didn't know what would happen in episode 3. They didn't tell her, so she played the character straight (and was very happy when she learned that she would be allowed to play more than the nice supportive love-interest).

Let's be honest, there aren't many roles like that for female actresses. The Media tends to reduce them to "the mother, the whore, or the fighter". But woman are not that simple.

I really don't see why an action hero (or fictional criminal) is allowed to have a family, but when a female fighter wants to be a mother, there are suddenly raised brows. Why shouldn't Mary feel bad for her past? She picked nurse as new job, perhaps to make up for the lifes she took. Why shouldn't she be a good and loving mother? Obviously nurturing is not that far removed from her nature, considering that the neighbors come to her for help.
I honestly wonder what the feeling about Mary would be if she hadn't shot Sherlock. I think some of the resentment comes from the fact that people just love the character of Sherlock so much that they can't bring themselves to like someone that hurts him, even if he forgives that person for it.

There are LOTS of female characters who aren't one dimensional! :-) I made the mistake of reading the transcript, and it actually made me dislike Mary *more*, not less.

Oi!

Mattlocked · January 24, 2014 7:11 am

Titania wrote:
I love their close friendship, the way they interact together in 221B and outside of course, in a way, Mary compromises that equilibrium. I don't say that they can't be friend even close friends but it's not the same....
I miss just the 2 of them against the rest of the world

You already miss something which hasn't gone, yet.
I wonder if it wouldn't be boring if the next 6 episodes would start with "John and Sherlock are sitting in 221B, having breakfast, and a new client arrives."
Hm.

besleybean · January 24, 2014 7:12 am

I personally could live with that, but I know what you mean...

sj4iy · January 24, 2014 12:13 pm

RavenMorganLeigh wrote:
sj4iy wrote:
Swanpride wrote:
Maybe because AA didn't know what would happen in episode 3. They didn't tell her, so she played the character straight (and was very happy when she learned that she would be allowed to play more than the nice supportive love-interest).

Let's be honest, there aren't many roles like that for female actresses. The Media tends to reduce them to "the mother, the whore, or the fighter". But woman are not that simple.

I really don't see why an action hero (or fictional criminal) is allowed to have a family, but when a female fighter wants to be a mother, there are suddenly raised brows. Why shouldn't Mary feel bad for her past? She picked nurse as new job, perhaps to make up for the lifes she took. Why shouldn't she be a good and loving mother? Obviously nurturing is not that far removed from her nature, considering that the neighbors come to her for help.
I honestly wonder what the feeling about Mary would be if she hadn't shot Sherlock. I think some of the resentment comes from the fact that people just love the character of Sherlock so much that they can't bring themselves to like someone that hurts him, even if he forgives that person for it.

There are LOTS of female characters who aren't one dimensional! :-) I made the mistake of reading the transcript, and it actually made me dislike Mary *more*, not less.

Oi!

I knew the entire episode before I watched it. Didn't make Mary one-dimensional to me.

Davina · January 24, 2014 6:37 pm

Lots of Madonna-whore in literature and the media in general!