BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012.


You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?



January 10, 2014 1:56 am  #361


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

True story......Nope!
Sherlock can't tell Watson the Anderson Theory.... Too much time in the militarty, he would know a rifle with a scope is NOT what you use in a stairwell.

I know, I know... he was a Doctor..... "And a soldier, as you keep reminding us"

 

January 10, 2014 3:22 am  #362


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

Ladies and gentlemen, please have faith in the creative efforts of Moffat and Gatiss.  They know everything we do, and a whole lot more.  If they never get around to verifying our own brilliant theories about the hoax, it's only because they have absolute confidence in our intellectual abilities to figure this out on our own.
 
The fact that the theories we've seen in the show are clearly ridiculous proves that none of them are right.  Therefore, intelligent theories by real smart fans like us are bound to be bang on target!  We licked this problem!
 
A scene which completely verifies our theory could easily be presented in my whimsical scene above. Therefore . . . it's largely unnecessary.  I'm satisfied we're right.  I mean, damn – we only get three Sherlock episodes every two years –  so why waste time showing us stuff we've figured out on our own?
 
What I want in the upcoming episode 3 is something that will keep me occupied, interested, and wracking my brain for the next two years!
 
Not something that makes me feel gratified that I was right about episode 3 in series 2

Last edited by Bruce Cook (January 12, 2014 4:14 pm)


A good debate is like a fencing match — you don't have to win to get a good workout.
 

January 10, 2014 10:06 am  #363


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

I assume, jumping into a fireman's net and stage that performance around isn't as simple as you think. People, equipment, stuff, timing... Your differences to the Anderson story are just in details, imo. (Net instead of the pillow, mycrofts agents instead of the homeless...) And for me, that doesn't work, it isn't simple enough. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png

Last edited by s.he (January 10, 2014 11:15 am)


_________________________________________________

> Don't take it personally, please. <


edit: foreign-language-problems: grammar, orthography, wrong vocables, breaks
 

January 10, 2014 2:51 pm  #364


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

For me the  explanation is way too complex and detailed...only lies need details!
He said he didn't have much time either... tht wld take a lot of time...and all the possible watchers in all the surrounding buildings.....didn't see a thing ..
And srsly trust a loada homeless people with the most important potentially deady secret....... seems stupid?
The whole thing is Sherlocks drive Anderson/us/idiots crazy trap,  the writers assume the viewers are intelligent!
It's cruel..... but funny.

Indestuctable does not hint at landing on a huge soft bouncy inflatable thing...

Last edited by lil (January 10, 2014 2:58 pm)

 

January 10, 2014 4:33 pm  #365


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

To me the whole 'how did he survive' thing is closely tied in with the original canon. It seems/feels that the writers are perhaps replicating what ACD must have gone through having decided (foolishly with hindsight) to kill off his creation by him falling over the Reichenbach Falls. Subsequently, due to fan pressure, he had to resurrect his creation and come up with an explanation of how Sherlock Holmes survived that fall. The best he could come up with was baritsu. There is even an allusion to this when Sherlock starts to go through the possible solutions.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdq1pcLCUR1rs9hrro1_500.jpg
 

January 10, 2014 7:27 pm  #366


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

Davina wrote:

To me the whole 'how did he survive' thing is closely tied in with the original canon. It seems/feels that the writers are perhaps replicating what ACD must have gone through having decided (foolishly with hindsight) to kill off his creation by him falling over the Reichenbach Falls. Subsequently, due to fan pressure, he had to resurrect his creation and come up with an explanation of how Sherlock Holmes survived that fall. The best he could come up with was baritsu. There is even an allusion to this when Sherlock starts to go through the possible solutions.

Big difference being, of course. There were no actual witnesses to Holmes' "death" in the canon.

Moftiss were trying to go one step up and be that bit cleverer by having him do it in such dramatic fashion and in front of witnesses, but then are trying to give us a similar fob off type explanation as the one ACD gave, which just doesn't work quite as well, IMO.

I never really had a problem with Holmes' explanation.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.

Independent OSAJ Affiliate

http://9.asset.soup.io/asset/1715/0057_6c7d.gif
     Thread Starter
 

January 11, 2014 12:26 pm  #367


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

Agree with Sherlock Holmes. AC Doyle had to come up with an explanation after the fact, since originally, he had no plans to resurrect Holmes. He was lucky, that Holmes' original fall to death left big loopholes, so it wasn't even that difficult to come up with a lame but plausible explanation. The readership didn't expect something elaborate anyway. They just wanted Holmes back, no matter how.
With Sherlock, it's very different. Mofftiss created a death scenario, which was incredibly difficult to explain away in a satisfiying fashion, yet they raised the expectations sky high by planting all sorts of clues, and telling people, there is an elegant solution, parts of it were on film already, and it was solvable, if you just pay attention to all the details. And then they bail out with an ambiguous solution full of holes. And very inelegant to boot, at least IMO.  If they really insist on leaving things like that, it's sloppy story telling to say the least. But I have still hope, that hints will be given in tomorrow's last episode, and more info might come up in season 4.
To give you another perplexing example of sloppyness in theory 3: I went through the footage again yesterday, and something about the conditions and the atmosphere didn't feel quite right. They used part of the old footage of TRF again, but something in the new footage was different. First I suspected the weather inconsistencies, but that was discussed after TRF at length already, and is probably due to the changing weather in England, lol! Then it hit me: In some sequences on the ground you can see, that the trees have no foliage, they are bare! In TRF, they are in full foliage, which creates a very different street atmosphere. So, is this just another incredible sloppyness, or is this a hint, that Sherlock is pulling Anderson's legs. You have to remember, that TEH takes place in November. Might Sherlock just have used in his head the CURRENT conditions? After TRF, Mofftiss said, they had already shot most parts of the real solution, which makes sense, since it's difficult to recreate the same conditions for a re shoot, especially, if a lengthy delay is on the horizon. Yet, in theory 3, we've seen only scenes, which have been already shown in TRF, and scenes with markedly different conditions, which cannot have been filmed, when they did TRF. Where are those scenes, which were done, when they shot TRF, but were not used in that episode?
Food for thought.

Last edited by sherlocked (January 11, 2014 12:28 pm)

 

January 12, 2014 2:52 am  #368


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

sherlocked wrote:

In some sequences on the ground you can see, that the trees have no foliage, they are bare!.

Those scenes were just filmed at a different time of year.  It's as simple as that.

And I too hope that all the confusion will be cleared up eventually, even if it's just with something as brief as I posted above: a conversation between Sherlock and John in which Sherlock reveals that the hoax was accomplished in a much more simple manner than the three-ring circus he described to Anderson. No dead bodies, no big air bag, and no sniper with rifle on the steps behind the sniper with a rifle (oh God, what a joke that was).


A good debate is like a fencing match — you don't have to win to get a good workout.
 

January 12, 2014 4:16 am  #369


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

Oh, goodness.   Ok  I  haven't read all of the posts,  here.   I  haven't actually seen the episode yet  in the USA;   however,  I  did happen to catch it  online  (but it kept buffering and skipping)   and I  DID  read the subtitles  of it, too.   My  first thought was,   what the dickens was Anderson doing in this episode?   His  involvement is neither here nor there.   The writers could have kept him out and made more screen time for when Sherlock and John were "trapped" inside that train car.   and I'm not amused with the way this episode ended.    Still too many questions.    Darn Moftiss.  Yeah,  I was hoping for the Tardis to rescue Sherlock, too. 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

SHERLOCK!!!!!!
 

January 13, 2014 5:17 pm  #370


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

Did you noticed? In HLV Sherlock called Anderson by his last name again. Now I am absolutely convinced that the conversation between Sherlock and Anderson never took place. 


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"There is a place for people like you, the desperate, the terrified. The ones with nowhere else to run."
"What place?"
"221B Baker Street."
 

January 13, 2014 5:21 pm  #371


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

I wouldn't be so sure.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

January 14, 2014 3:43 pm  #372


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

I'm not sure if this has been brought up as I don't want to go back through all 27 pages of this thread; but I must say that overall I am very happy that the theory was left rather ambiguous.  There is a Latin quote from Sherlock in "The Red Headed League", "Omne ignotum pro magnifico", which means "everything unknown is taken as grand".  (According to Merriam-Webster.com.)  I feel like this sums it up very nicely.  If we know for absolute certain how he did it there will always be many left unsatisfied; just like Anderson was.

 

January 14, 2014 5:45 pm  #373


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

Hey, I like that Latin quote!  Cool.  Now I know two Latin phrases: that one and E Pluribus Unum (which I think means "What good is a damn penny?")

Weirdness, I must confess I've come to agree with your assertion that giving us several wack-a-doodle theories and not telling us the real explanation is the only way Moffat and Gatiss could avoid an avalanche of complaints that the actual solution was too simple (the one with the fireman's net and a team of government agents to pull it off).

Insisting that the explanation be elaborate is actually insisting it be less intelligent -- and a Sherlock Holmes plan must be intelligent.  None of the three theories presented a clever, workable suicide hoax. Taken all together, they had quite a lot in common with the Ringling Brothers Circus, complete with elements like:

* a trapeze act (the bungee cord)

* a clown in make-up (Moriarty's body with the mask)

* a magic act (the disappearing body, played by Sherlock's twin brother-from-another-mother)

* a group of energetic circus roustabouts (the air bag team)

* and a thrilling high-dive climax by the death-defying Great Sherlockian, Acrobat Extraordinaire'!
 
Yes, folks, this confirms what we've all been saying for years – that Sherlock is indeed The Greatest Show on Earth!

Last edited by Bruce Cook (January 14, 2014 5:52 pm)


A good debate is like a fencing match — you don't have to win to get a good workout.
 

January 20, 2014 5:19 am  #374


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

OK. I honestly don't mind if that's how Sherlock really did it, because it was pretty close to my own theory (apart from I was never a fan of the rubber ball, haha).

I just always imagined that the true reveal would come from Sherlock telling John how he did it. And there was that moment, when John asked him as they were about to go out and face the press. There was like...five minutes left to spare, and I honestly thought Sherlock was about to tell him then.

You honed in here on the piece that bothered me: I assumed at the time this was the true explanation because 1) it was almost the end of the episode, and 2) I thought he was talking to John. And I assumed he would tell John the truth. (Silly me!)

And then at the end, didn't John ask Sherlock again how he did it?

I do see the point behind the "he wouldn't tell Anderson the truth," comment. I have said many times that he could get back at those who hated him in-universe by keeping them in the dark....thinking about supernatural possibilties...and maybe making them wonder a little if it was anything like History's Greatest Rise From the Dead...and John HAS to be wondering that on some level, too.

 

January 20, 2014 6:23 am  #375


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

One thing that's been bugging me is the sniper who was trained on John his scope followed John all the way through to after Holmes' Body was carried off. that meant that his vantage point had an unobstructed view of the point of impact. ergo! he (of all people) would have seen the way Sherlock faked it and as he lived t put down the rifle we have to assume that for some reason he elected to not act on the knowledge that Sherlock didn't meet his end of the bargain.

here a theory i have
He was bought off. It's possible that while Moriarty was in custody, Sherlock and Mycroft had also already "pinched" Moriarty's preferred triggermen and made them counter-offers. Not just monetary but as Mycroft was in the government he could ensure the triggerman/men that they would be given full immunity/pardons and yes rewards for simply playing at being on Jim's side.


"I am Lost without my Blogger!"
 

January 20, 2014 4:14 pm  #376


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

I think what Sherlock told Anderson was pretty much the truth. I also think it doesn't matter anyway.
When John pressed for the answer at the end, Sherlock just brushed it aside.
So that is that. Fini.
This Sherlock series just puts whatever onscreen and the audience can believe whatever it wants.
The fan base debates and debates everything.
The writers have a BIG hit show.
It is not the Granada series with everything tied up neat with a bow.
It is not canon.

 

January 20, 2014 4:22 pm  #377


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

Sorry, Golddragon71, but you're mistaken about the sniper being able to see the sidewalk where Sherlock landed.  HIs view of the sidewalk was blocked by the low brick building positioned between the snipers's 2nd floor window and the sidwalk beneath the hospital.  John stood at the far end of the brick building (by desgin, as Sherlock planned it), and it prevented him too from the seeing the sidewalk.  (In the picture below, John has not yet moved back the far corner of the building as Sherlock insisted he do before he jumped.)

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb106/Allscifi/Sherlock/Sherlock14.png


If you look carefully at the view through window where the sniper was located, there is a shot when the camera was positioned higher than the man, and you can see the brick side of the building, because the view is angled downward. (The bricks are much easier to see on TV.  Check and see if I'm right.)

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb106/Allscifi/Sherlock/Sherlock15.jpg


In the other shot of the sniper, when the camera is looking straight out the window, we see the upper part of the trees along the sidewalk across the street.  The roof of the brick building is below the view through the window, so we don't see it. (Again, the tree leaves are easy to see on TV.  Take a look at the episode and see for yourself.)

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb106/Allscifi/Sherlock/Sniper.jpg


The sniper could see John's upper body over the roof of the brick building as John stood on the sidewalk after Sherlock jumped, but not John's legs or the sidewalk itself.

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb106/Allscifi/Sherlock/Sniper2.jpg


However, the sniper was actually in a good position to see the opposite end of the building from where John stood, looking out the window to his right -- which meant he could see the alledged airbag being inflated and moved by the crew of men. 

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb106/Allscifi/Sherlock/AirBag1.jpg


And the sniper would get an even better look when the ground crew brought the airbag back around the build to hide it from John.  He could easily figure out what had happened and know the suicide was a hoax.  He would then dutifully blow John's brains out.

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb106/Allscifi/Sherlock/Sherlock16.jpg

That's why I'm convinced there was no big blue airbag.  Sherlock lied to Anderson about that and several other aspects of his fake "explanation" for how the hoax was committed.

Last edited by Bruce Cook (January 20, 2014 7:55 pm)


A good debate is like a fencing match — you don't have to win to get a good workout.
 

January 20, 2014 9:17 pm  #378


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

Aujouret wrote:

I think what Sherlock told Anderson was pretty much the truth. I also think it doesn't matter anyway.
When John pressed for the answer at the end, Sherlock just brushed it aside.
So that is that. Fini.
This Sherlock series just puts whatever onscreen and the audience can believe whatever it wants.
The fan base debates and debates everything.
The writers have a BIG hit show.
It is not the Granada series with everything tied up neat with a bow.
It is not canon.

And maybe John really meant it when he said he didn't care how; maybe he even LIKES having the lingering question of something supernatural. And we, the viewer, are probably supposed to identify with John more than any other character.

 

January 21, 2014 2:13 pm  #379


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

Bruce Cook wrote:

Sorry, Golddragon71, but you're mistaken about the sniper being able to see the sidewalk where Sherlock landed.  HIs view of the sidewalk was blocked by the low brick building positioned between the snipers's 2nd floor window and the sidwalk beneath the hospital.  John stood at the far end of the brick building (by desgin, as Sherlock planned it), and it prevented him too from the seeing the sidewalk.  (In the picture below, John has not yet moved back the far corner of the building as Sherlock insisted he do before he jumped.)

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb106/Allscifi/Sherlock/Sherlock14.png


If you look carefully at the view through window where the sniper was located, there is a shot when the camera was positioned higher than the man, and you can see the brick side of the building, because the view is angled downward. (The bricks are much easier to see on TV.  Check and see if I'm right.)

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb106/Allscifi/Sherlock/Sherlock15.jpg


In the other shot of the sniper, when the camera is looking straight out the window, we see the upper part of the trees along the sidewalk across the street.  The roof of the brick building is below the view through the window, so we don't see it. (Again, the tree leaves are easy to see on TV.  Take a look at the episode and see for yourself.)

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb106/Allscifi/Sherlock/Sniper.jpg


The sniper could see John's upper body over the roof of the brick building as John stood on the sidewalk after Sherlock jumped, but not John's legs or the sidewalk itself.

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb106/Allscifi/Sherlock/Sniper2.jpg


However, the sniper was actually in a good position to see the opposite end of the building from where John stood, looking out the window to his right -- which meant he could see the alledged airbag being inflated and moved by the crew of men. 

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb106/Allscifi/Sherlock/AirBag1.jpg


And the sniper would get an even better look when the ground crew brought the airbag back around the build to hide it from John.  He could easily figure out what had happened and know the suicide was a hoax.  He would then dutifully blow John's brains out.

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb106/Allscifi/Sherlock/Sherlock16.jpg

That's why I'm convinced there was no big blue airbag.  Sherlock lied to Anderson about that and several other aspects of his fake "explanation" for how the hoax was committed.

Wow! thanks for the clarification.
 


"I am Lost without my Blogger!"
 

January 21, 2014 6:36 pm  #380


Re: The theory he told Anderson - The actual answer??

I posted this elsewhere, but after the PBS airing of "The Empty Hearse", there was an hour of commentary on the Sherlock series. As part of that documentary, there were interviews both with Jonathan Aris (Anderson) and Moffat/Gatiss. In both interviews, the principals seemed clearly to indicate that Sherlock was not giving Anderson the correct details, and that we would be wise not to trust the explanation we see.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Perfectly sound analysis. I was hoping you would go a little deeper."
 

Board footera

 

Powered by Boardhost. Create a Free Forum