BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » How Mary could have shot Sherlock and everyone forgave her for it

lil · January 19, 2014 10:59 pm

Brilliant btw..thought provoked..

1 cam set up the bonfire test.
2 he needed Sherlock to get a clue and watch him hunt
3 he was connected to Sherlock via Mary. ? He had power over Mary.
4 he told Mary to take the skip code to Sherlock.
5 Mary knew about John bonfire plan and colluded in it.

Simple logical chain of thought ...one plus one equalling two..

Willow · January 19, 2014 11:24 pm

lil wrote:
Brilliant btw..thought provoked..

1 cam set up the bonfire test.
2 he needed Sherlock to get a clue and watch him hunt
3 he was connected to Sherlock via Mary. ? He had power over Mary.
4 he told Mary to take the skip code to Sherlock.
5 Mary knew about John bonfire plan and colluded in it.

Simple logical chain of thought ...one plus one equalling two..

Yes; once you remove the assumption that Mary is a nice person and look simply at what actually happened in the episodes then the logical chain of thought you have outlined becomes obvious.

Of course, the writers can come back next season and upturn everything, but so far they have provided a lot of information which would support Mary not being a nice person...

sj4iy · January 19, 2014 11:35 pm

lil wrote:
Brilliant btw..thought provoked..

1 cam set up the bonfire test.
2 he needed Sherlock to get a clue and watch him hunt
3 he was connected to Sherlock via Mary. ? He had power over Mary.
4 he told Mary to take the skip code to Sherlock.
5 Mary knew about John bonfire plan and colluded in it.

Simple logical chain of thought ...one plus one equalling two..

She colluded in killing the same husband she proved later that she would do anything to save? And with the man that she wanted to kill?

Not seeing it.

Last edited by sj4iy (January 19, 2014 11:41 pm)

lil · January 19, 2014 11:40 pm

This deduction has even shocked me.
I am further convinced Sherlock plays the long game.

lil · January 19, 2014 11:43 pm

sj4iy wrote:
lil wrote:
Brilliant btw..thought provoked..

1 cam set up the bonfire test.
2 he needed Sherlock to get a clue and watch him hunt
3 he was connected to Sherlock via Mary. ? He had power over Mary.
4 he told Mary to take the skip code to Sherlock.
5 Mary knew about John bonfire plan and colluded in it.

Simple logical chain of thought ...one plus one equalling two..
She colluded in killing the same husband she proved later that she would do anything to save? And with the man that she wanted to kill?

Not seeing it.

Evidence ..thought process?
The plan did not involve killing john?.
Just kidnapping drugging and burnt a little in a bonfire....

Last edited by lil (January 19, 2014 11:47 pm)

sj4iy · January 19, 2014 11:47 pm

lil wrote:
sj4iy wrote:
lil wrote:
Brilliant btw..thought provoked..

1 cam set up the bonfire test.
2 he needed Sherlock to get a clue and watch him hunt
3 he was connected to Sherlock via Mary. ? He had power over Mary.
4 he told Mary to take the skip code to Sherlock.
5 Mary knew about John bonfire plan and colluded in it.

Simple logical chain of thought ...one plus one equalling two..
She colluded in killing the same husband she proved later that she would do anything to save? And with the man that she wanted to kill?

Not seeing it.

Evidence ..thought process?
The plan did not involve killing john?.

There is no evidence that she was either colluding with CAM or betraying John and Sherlock. I see plenty of evidence AGAINST it, though.

Last edited by sj4iy (January 19, 2014 11:48 pm)

lil · January 19, 2014 11:49 pm

sj4iy wrote:
lil wrote:
sj4iy wrote:

She colluded in killing the same husband she proved later that she would do anything to save? And with the man that she wanted to kill?

Not seeing it.

Evidence ..thought process?
The plan did not involve killing john?.
There is no evidence that she was either colluding with CAM or betraying John and Sherlock. I see plenty of evidence AGAINST it, though.

Please share?

sj4iy · January 19, 2014 11:53 pm

lil wrote:
sj4iy wrote:
lil wrote:

Evidence ..thought process?
The plan did not involve killing john?.
There is no evidence that she was either colluding with CAM or betraying John and Sherlock. I see plenty of evidence AGAINST it, though.

Please share?

The evidence that she DIDN'T collude with CAM?

1. Neither she nor CAM mention it
2. CAM is blackmailing her and he states his reasons why
3. She would have killed CAM if Sherlock hadn't interrupted them
4. She says that she would do anything to save her relationship with John. You don't say that after you willingly throw your husband into a bonfire.

There's still no evidence FOR her being in collusion with CAM.

Willow · January 19, 2014 11:56 pm

sj4iy wrote:
lil wrote:
Brilliant btw..thought provoked..

1 cam set up the bonfire test.
2 he needed Sherlock to get a clue and watch him hunt
3 he was connected to Sherlock via Mary. ? He had power over Mary.
4 he told Mary to take the skip code to Sherlock.
5 Mary knew about John bonfire plan and colluded in it.

Simple logical chain of thought ...one plus one equalling two..
She colluded in killing the same husband she proved later that she would do anything to save? And with the man that she wanted to kill?

Not seeing it.

I don't recall Mary doing anything to save John. She told Sherlock that she would do anything to prevent John finding out about her past, but Sherlock wasn't threatening John.

The person who threatened John was CAM, who proved it by arranging for him to be kidnapped and placed inside a bonfire, but Mary did not shoot CAM. She shot Sherlock, who was the person who had rescued John from the bonfire.

Definitely not seeing it...

lil · January 20, 2014 12:02 am

1 evidence for.
2 evidence for.
3 yes. Why? Evidence for.
4 how could she refuse?
Plan was just kidnapping...drugging..little bit of heat...saying..
She wouldn't is not logical.plan comes under...anything!
More evidence for.

Last edited by lil (January 20, 2014 12:22 am)

lil · January 20, 2014 12:09 am

Q...cam just guessed Mary ...trained agent clever etc etc would...go running to Sherlock for help?
And on a illogical guess..went to a lot of trouble setting up the test when....
He could just flick Mary's face?
Hmmmmm
Obviously she colluded.

sj4iy · January 20, 2014 12:13 am

Willow wrote:
sj4iy wrote:
lil wrote:
Brilliant btw..thought provoked..

1 cam set up the bonfire test.
2 he needed Sherlock to get a clue and watch him hunt
3 he was connected to Sherlock via Mary. ? He had power over Mary.
4 he told Mary to take the skip code to Sherlock.
5 Mary knew about John bonfire plan and colluded in it.

Simple logical chain of thought ...one plus one equalling two..
She colluded in killing the same husband she proved later that she would do anything to save? And with the man that she wanted to kill?

Not seeing it.

I don't recall Mary doing anything to save John. She told Sherlock that she would do anything to prevent John finding out about her past, but Sherlock wasn't threatening John.

The person who threatened John was CAM, who proved it by arranging for him to be kidnapped and placed inside a bonfire, but Mary did not shoot CAM. She shot Sherlock, who was the person who had rescued John from the bonfire.

Definitely not seeing it...

You're right, she did NOTHING to save John...

...except get Sherlock for help, go with Sherlock to the bonfire and help Sherlock drag him out of the fire.

But there is absolutely no evidence that she colluded with CAM. Just because you don't think she 'helped enough' isn't evidence of Mary trying to kill her fiance and colluding with her blackmailer.

kittykat · January 20, 2014 12:14 am

The way I see it, Mary worked hard to leave her old life behind. And she found love and was determined to keep it.

Why would she help someone to hurt the man she loved?

lil · January 20, 2014 12:25 am

Idk either.@Kitty
But look up. That comes under anything for..
She did collude.

sj4iy · January 20, 2014 12:26 am

lil wrote:
Idk either.@Kitty
But look up. That comes under anything for..
She did collude.

Show me the smoking gun and I'll completely believe you. An absence of evidence doesn't count as evidence.

Last edited by sj4iy (January 20, 2014 12:27 am)

kittykat · January 20, 2014 12:27 am

I know that people like it when things are black and white.

NEWSFLASH - life is not black and white

There are grey areas, and this is one of them.

lil · January 20, 2014 12:28 am

One plus one does equal two.

kittykat · January 20, 2014 12:32 am

Well, glad to see that your education paid off!

sj4iy · January 20, 2014 12:34 am

lil wrote:
One plus one does equal two.

I'm simply saying that I'll believe this when I see actual evidence to prove it. Right now, it makes no sense to me because I see no evidence of this. If you can show the actual evidence, I'll gladly believe you.

lil · January 20, 2014 12:48 am

lil wrote:
Brilliant btw..thought provoked..

1 cam set up the bonfire test.
2 he needed Sherlock to get a clue and watch him hunt
3 he was connected to Sherlock via Mary. ? He had power over Mary.
4 he told Mary to take the skip code to Sherlock.
5 Mary knew about John bonfire plan and colluded in it.

Simple logical chain of thought ...one plus one equalling two..

You do not see this as making sense or evidence?