BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Moriarty theories

silverblaze · January 13, 2014 7:29 pm

Maybe it's nice to have a thread where we can discuss all our theories about the return of Moriarty, they're a bit everywhere now.

I've seen at least four different scenarios here now. My current favorite is that Morarty is still dead and that the film was somehow created by Mycroft in order to save his brother.

What do you think? Is he really back? Is it his canon brother? Is there another villain who uses his image? Or was it Mycroft?

Ozma · January 13, 2014 7:40 pm

My idea is that Moriarty is dead (when I met Andrew from what he was saying I got this feeling he might be involved in the next series as a living character if you know what I mean, but then again he *is* a great actor!) and that the message was from someone else.

I don't think it was all concocted by Mycroft.

Joalro · January 13, 2014 7:44 pm

Moriarty is alive. TRF was a chess game between Moriarty and Sherlock, and Moriarty's death was simply a move. He was hoping that that move would force Sherlock into his death, but Sherlock had an appropriate coutner move.

The game is not over yet.

The fact is that we actually still have no information as to what happened at the end of series 2. Even how Sherlock faked it, in my opinion, has not been revealed. The series cliffhanger for series 3 is the exact same cliffhanger for 2. How did they both do it?

mujie · January 13, 2014 7:55 pm

It's funny. I think Moriarty's death was the only thing Steven Moffat was very explicit about. With everything else, he's been subtle, sneaky, but he said that he was dead. But if Moriarty really is alive, he knew Sherlock was being sentenced to death. He purposely saved Sherlock's life just now. Which also means he has a government spy. No, a Mycroft spy... It was more likely to be Mycroft I'd think.

By the way, did Moriarty ever make a vow?

Last edited by mujie (January 13, 2014 7:57 pm)

macytree · January 14, 2014 1:42 pm

Moved from another post. Hope you don't mind me quoting you dartmoordoggers!

macytree wrote:
dartmoordoggers wrote:
I think it will be a Moriarty; and it will be played by Andrew Scott. Whilst the multi-broadcast is open to the possibilty that anyone could be behind it; there is the further broadcast as the credits finish and program ends. That leaves no doubt as to who it is.
And we were told to watch right to the end.
Thats true, i hadn't thought of that. I was starting to think it must be another villain, and the clip was just a hoax. But like you say, why would they add that bit right at the end after the credits if that was the case? It must be Moriarty. Or A Moriarty.

Anyone else have any theories regarding that little end clip and why it was put there?

silverblaze · January 14, 2014 4:18 pm

Ah, the end clip. I conveniently forgot about that in my Mycroft theory.

He doesn't have to be alive for that clip to make sense. It could be a flashback, a fantasy of one of the characters, a mind palace clip, or indeed his brother.

My problem with the brother theory is that the brother could have made a better film if he was his twin. Why do an animation if you look just like him?

Same for Moriarty himself. With him there's the additional problem that he prefers to be invisible. But maybe he's brain damaged, seems likely to say the least.

For me, Mycroft still wins because he's the only one with a motive.

SueDonym · January 14, 2014 4:38 pm

I think he's dead. I can't think of any reason why he or whoever flooded the image would have used an animation if he was actually alive. I think the 'real' clip at the end of the credits was just a teaser for the next series. He doesn't say 'Did you miss me?' - which would imply he's coming back. He just says "Miss me?" - which could mean anything.

I don't know who created and released it. I like the theory of it being Mycroft. Not sure he would compromise his position in the government though.
I also think it's possible that it was something Moriarty set up before he died. Moriarty had a death-wish, he was quite prepared to die. I think it's likely he would have made sure there was a fall-out after it happened.

Sherli Bakerst · January 14, 2014 11:47 pm

I think Moriarty is dead and Mycroft somehow created the clips that were broadcast (as I've said elsewhere).

As for the clip at the very end after the credits, here's another possiblity: Moftiss are playing with the audience and it has no connection to the series at all. They know Moriarty/Andrew was well-liked, so they just inserted him at the end--when the real story/plot has ended--to tease and provoke viewers into speculation about what it could mean. Instead of fans speculating over how Sherlock survived, they now get us to spend the hiatus wondering what is going on with Moriarty. But, in fact, it doesn't mean anything! It's just to give us another glimpse of Andrew as Moriarty and create some buzz.

Sherlock Holmes · January 15, 2014 12:20 am

Moving this to the new Series Four forum.

Tantalus · January 16, 2014 9:36 pm

I think, and hope, that Moriarty is dead. For one thing, Sherlock and Mycroft would surely act differently when talking alone if they had any inkling of an idea that Moriarty was still alive. They don't, thus they definitely must have disposed of the body.

And I don't think Mycroft is behind the "re-appearance"--he seems truly surprised at the videos.

Where does that lead us? Perhaps a Moriarty relative, although why the person would want to advertise themselves so publicly is a mystery.

In summary, I don't know.

Ormond Sacker · January 17, 2014 9:14 am

Can I just bring something up? Many of us have critisised the 3rd of the "how Sherlock survived his fall" theories, the one he explains to Anderson. If Moffat and Gatiss can't even give a satisfactory story there how on earth are they going to revive Moriarty in a believable manner, unless they go with the clichéd twin brother thing, after all Jim shot himself in the head.
Plus it would go completely against canon (see I can use that argument too ), because once Moriarty was dead, he stayed dead.

dartmoordoggers · January 17, 2014 9:59 am

Maybe the second explanation in TEH is the true one. Sherlock didn't put the chair back for John in HLV. Thats for Moriarty.

Hera · January 17, 2014 10:16 am

I think Moriarty is dead, but he recorded videos or something before his death and one his guys uses them to torment Sherlock. Maybe as a sort of scavanger hunt.

silverblaze · January 17, 2014 11:23 am

dartmoordoggers wrote:
Maybe the second explanation in TEH is the true one. Sherlock didn't put the chair back for John in HLV. Thats for Moriarty.

Oh, yeah, totally. Moffat explained that in the podcast, the second one is the true one, the other two are red herrings.

saturnR · January 17, 2014 9:44 pm

If it is Mycroft, how's he gonna explain himself to cabinet when they find out?

silverblaze · January 17, 2014 10:06 pm

saturnR wrote:
If it is Mycroft, how's he gonna explain himself to cabinet when they find out?

He's gonna take a fall. Is my prediction.

tonnaree · January 18, 2014 1:30 am

Swanpride wrote:
I stick to "We get a proper version of Sebastian Moran" - it kind of makes sense. We got the Anti-Sherlock with Moriarty, the Anti-Mycroft with Magnusson, I think it is time that we get the Anti-John. And that happens to be Moran.

I am liking this idea more and more.

silverblaze · January 18, 2014 1:51 pm

The problem with Moran is that there has already been a character with that name and the original wasn't very interesting. He was just a sniper with a big gun, basically, and a bit less scary than Moriarty. I hope you get your villain but I don't think he will be based on Moran.

silverblaze · January 18, 2014 3:15 pm

Oh, I forgot about that backstory, it's been a while since I read the Empty House. I'm starting to like your version of him now. Sir Moran was in his late forties, early fifties so he has to be end twenty, early 30, maybe even younger. I imagine him as a rich spoiled kid, thrillseeker, professional gambler, great, maybe he plays poker too. Must know how to read and intimidate people. Got involved with the bad guys somehow and daddy got him out of sticky situations a few times. He'd have to have his own criminal network somehow, since Moriarty's one is gone. Yep, starting to see your point.

I'm definately plotting my own series 4 now.

zydeholic · January 19, 2014 6:02 am

Lets see, Moriarity had someone made up to look just like Sherlock to frighten the kids, and then he was killed, and that corpse was used by Sherlock to fake his own death.

Moriarity could just as well had a doppelganger of himself made up. In Study in Pink, he has someone killing others, so his family could be taken care of after the cabbie died. He could have someone else under control with a similar scenario.

I can hear Moriarity saying "Two can play at that game, Sherlock."

And maybe, the character we've seen as Moriarity, is not Moriarity at all, but a stand-in. And Moriarity doesn't even look like that.