BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Anderson in Many Happy Returns

FluteLocked · December 26, 2013 10:12 am

We assumed it because of the teaser and now we can be sure because we saw the minisode: Anderson believes in Sherlock.

I'm not sure what I think about that for I found his squabbling with Sherlock funny and it seems a bit unrealistic that he should have changed so much. On the other hand I suppose Mofftiss had their reasons and it will be explained in the new season.

Now I'm interested in what you think about Anderson's 'change in attitudes'.
Do you like it? Why? Why not?
Do you have any ideas why they did it?
So maybe this is a place to discuss the 'new' and 'old' Anderson.

kete · December 26, 2013 10:16 am

Good idea! I suppose he felt so guilt ridden about Sherlock's suicide that it completely changed his attitude. Also, we don't know what has come to light about Moriarty during Sherlock's absence. Maybe his name was, at least partially, cleared? And then to know that you had caused this brilliant innocent man's death... must have been a real shock.

FluteLocked · December 26, 2013 10:24 am

Yes, maybe he felt guilty. That could be enough to change a person completely.
A good idea that something about Moriarty came to light. We still don't know what happened to his dead (?) body.

silverblaze · December 26, 2013 10:36 am

Well, we hardly don't know anything about 'old' Anderson, other than that he occasionally argued with Sherlock. It's nice to have him do something completely different, it adds depth to him. I hope they will flesh out his character a little more in season three. IRL, people are so complex that they do all kinds of seemingly contradictionary things, so I think it's a really cool move by the Moftiss. (I always think that the 'drama' part of these kind of series is more realistic than in actual dramas where it's part of the plot.)

But to in-universe theories: if you work with someone for a while, even if you didn't really like him/her, and that person jumps off a building... it's gonna shake you up a little bit. I don't think it's such a stretch that he got a bit obsessed. I guess we're gonna see all the characters coping in their own unique ways.

FluteLocked · December 26, 2013 11:05 am

Yes that's right, we didn't really know much about him. It will be interesting to get to know him a bit more.
I'm curious how he will react when he finds out he was right and Sherlock's still alive. Maybe he'll list clues to it like Sherlock always did and surprise everyone with deduction skills?
Haha I'm going mad....

silverblaze · December 26, 2013 11:42 am

I'm guessing that for all his dedication, Anderson will be snapped at by Sherlock as soon as they meet again.

tonnaree · December 26, 2013 12:08 pm

I can imagine the guilt Anderson felt. He wanted to bring Sherlock down, but to have him kill himself and feel repsonsible for that.............shattering.

Now, I am also very curious about Sally's reaction to all this. From what we saw of her previously I can see her not feeling guilty at all. That she would view Sherlock's suicide as the last desperate act of a guilty man. I'm betting she's still with the Yard and would love to see her get some serious payback when the truth comes out;.

Lord, do we need to have a Sally thread too?

KeepersPrice · December 26, 2013 12:14 pm

Yes, I think Anderson's obsessed with Sherlock coming back. He's started noting those "stories" and following them and putting a pattern to them to the point of being mentally unhealthy and losing his job because he can think of nothing else - probably because he does feel guilty and may think Sherlock is coming back for some kind of revenge against him and Donovan. We'll see....

Totally love how all those little hints throughout the episode add up to Sherlock returning. One of my favorite is that sport's headline - "The Game is Back On". So clever!

FluteLocked · December 26, 2013 12:34 pm

Yes I also love the headline idea!
I think it shows how great the series is. In all episodes are so many little notes to canon and funny things only obsessed fans notice and even such a short episode is full of references and clues.

I think you're all right with how Anderson felt about Sherlock jumping off the roof.
Somehow I totally forgot how bad that must be for him.
Maybe he really feels sorry and tries to silence his conscience so he searches for clues for Sherlock.

silverblaze · December 26, 2013 12:40 pm

I'm probably about the only person on this forum who actually likes Sally. She's not a bad person, I think her reaction to Sherlock is what real policepeople would do. Her conclusion is really logical and she's just trying to do the right thing. I don't want her punished for that, it's not her fault that she's acting on false information. I don't think she'd feel guilty, in her mind the world got rid of a dangerous serial killer. Maybe with new evidence that'd change, that's probably what I would do if I were the writer.

Actually, she's a lot closer to Lestrade in the books, he eventually gets convinced so maybe Sally will too, if the Moftisson write her consistently she'd have to be convinced with good evidence. I truly hope they don't turn her into some kind of Scully figure that never gets convinced by anything.

I hope she gets a bit more developed too, there's always too few clever female characters in series like this. (Though I'm guessing Mary will be really cool too.)

Wholocked · December 26, 2013 11:31 pm

I think it's important to remember that both Sally and Anderson are police officers; him in forensics but still police. No one chooses that job unless they are passionate about protecting others and putting a stop to criminal behaviour.

The unfortunate side of that job is that you can never let your own feelings about a person cloud the issue. Just because you know, work with or like (they didn't) a person doesn't mean they can't be guilty. Anderson and Sally saw evidence (and let's face it, the child screaming at the sight of him was very cleverly engineered by Moriarty) that indicated Sherlock was involved. They wouldn't have been in character had they not responded to that.

I think the idea that Sherlock's innocence comes to light and Moriarty's machinations are revealed so that Anderson realises how he was manipulated into putting Sherlock in the position he was in is probably pretty close to the mark. He'd be feeling very guilty that he was drawn into Moriarty's game and that he suggested Sherlock's guilt and had him arrested, leading to his eventual suicide.

Guilt is a pretty powerful paradigm shifting emotion.

silverblaze · December 27, 2013 11:46 am

Wholocked wrote:
I think the idea that Sherlock's innocence comes to light and Moriarty's machinations are revealed so that Anderson realises how he was manipulated into putting Sherlock in the position he was in is probably pretty close to the mark. He'd be feeling very guilty that he was drawn into Moriarty's game and that he suggested Sherlock's guilt and had him arrested, leading to his eventual suicide.

I would like that storyline very much. Just imagine that happening to you, you'd be obsessed too. And then you see some vague clues that he's still alive. Yeah, I might lose my job too in that situation. Maybe Anderson worked out what Moriarty plotted but no one believed him because of the lies in the papers.

BTW, I think he should be getting a first name in TEH.

SherlocklivesinOH · January 12, 2014 3:05 am

I always wonder if part of the reason Sherlock stays in hiding so long (both here, and in canon, where his reasons for running away don't really make sense) is to teach Scotland Yard a lesson: "See how you like it when you're out of your depth and you don't have me to help you!"

So, I like the idea that some of his detractors are coming around. (I always like it when the bullies, or those who ostracized someone, have to really eat crow and acknowledge that that person was awesome. I want there to be major public tributing of Sherlock on the part of those who previously didn't like him.)

But on the other hand, as a big Johnlock fan, I want John to be the biggest believer. Here, I'm not focusing on whether or not their relationship could be sexual...but in canon and most other adaptations, Watson is always Holmes' number-one fan.

And now Anderson is believing in Sherlock more than "his Watson." John seems to believe Sherlock was innocent, and really was a genius...but it's Anderson who deduces Sherlock may have survived the fall....and loses his job over it...which kind of implies he believes Sherlock capable of geater feats of genius than John does. Does that make sense?

In other adaptations, we don't get much sense that Watson ever really "moves on." In Jeremy Brett's version, he becomes a police surgeon...implying that he's trying to keep doing the work he did with Holmes.

sj4iy · January 12, 2014 3:29 am

SherlocklivesinOH wrote:
I always wonder if part of the reason Sherlock stays in hiding so long (both here, and in canon, where his reasons for running away don't really make sense) is to teach Scotland Yard a lesson: "See how you like it when you're out of your depth and you don't have me to help you!"

So, I like the idea that some of his detractors are coming around. (I always like it when the bullies, or those who ostracized someone, have to really eat crow and acknowledge that that person was awesome. I want there to be major public tributing of Sherlock on the part of those who previously didn't like him.)

But on the other hand, as a big Johnlock fan, I want John to be the biggest believer. Here, I'm not focusing on whether or not their relationship could be sexual...but in canon and most other adaptations, Watson is always Holmes' number-one fan.

And now Anderson is believing in Sherlock more than "his Watson." John seems to believe Sherlock was innocent, and really was a genius...but it's Anderson who deduces Sherlock may have survived the fall....and loses his job over it...which kind of implies he believes Sherlock capable of geater feats of genius than John does. Does that make sense?

In other adaptations, we don't get much sense that Watson ever really "moves on." In Jeremy Brett's version, he becomes a police surgeon...implying that he's trying to keep doing the work he did with Holmes.

Well, in both, Sherlock needs to 'stay dead' in order to infiltrate Moriarty's network and dismantle it. If they know he's alive, they would try to kill him. Death is the perfect cover.

SherlocklivesinOH · January 12, 2014 4:13 am

sj4iy wrote:
SherlocklivesinOH wrote:
I always wonder if part of the reason Sherlock stays in hiding so long (both here, and in canon, where his reasons for running away don't really make sense) is to teach Scotland Yard a lesson: "See how you like it when you're out of your depth and you don't have me to help you!"

So, I like the idea that some of his detractors are coming around. (I always like it when the bullies, or those who ostracized someone, have to really eat crow and acknowledge that that person was awesome. I want there to be major public tributing of Sherlock on the part of those who previously didn't like him.)

But on the other hand, as a big Johnlock fan, I want John to be the biggest believer. Here, I'm not focusing on whether or not their relationship could be sexual...but in canon and most other adaptations, Watson is always Holmes' number-one fan.

And now Anderson is believing in Sherlock more than "his Watson." John seems to believe Sherlock was innocent, and really was a genius...but it's Anderson who deduces Sherlock may have survived the fall....and loses his job over it...which kind of implies he believes Sherlock capable of geater feats of genius than John does. Does that make sense?

In other adaptations, we don't get much sense that Watson ever really "moves on." In Jeremy Brett's version, he becomes a police surgeon...implying that he's trying to keep doing the work he did with Holmes.

Well, in both, Sherlock needs to 'stay dead' in order to infiltrate Moriarty's network and dismantle it. If they know he's alive, they would try to kill him. Death is the perfect cover.

In the original stories, Sherlock didn't really "infiltrate Moriarty's network." Moriarty falls over the waterfall. Holmes' canonical account of what he has been doing for the past few years is notorious for being full of contradictions and implausible reasons. Holmes tells Watson he had to disappear so that Moriarty's henchmen wouldn't get him...but he also says the henchmen saw that he was still alive.

In canon, Watson is already married, and some slashers think Holmes runs away because he just can't stand seeing Watson and yet having to share Watson with a wife.

SherlocklivesinOH · January 12, 2014 4:15 am

Oh, and to follow up on my discussion of Anderson vs. John: Doesn't John have a line something like, "The press always turn. They'll turn against you?"

Which turns out to be accurate, of course, but I don't like that it was John who told Sherlock that. I want John to be caught up in the Sherlock-worship. In canon, he's much more that: there are lines where he calls Holmes his "master," and "the man whom above all others I revere."

sj4iy · January 12, 2014 4:21 am

SherlocklivesinOH wrote:
Oh, and to follow up on my discussion of Anderson vs. John: Doesn't John have a line something like, "The press always turn. They'll turn against you?"

Which turns out to be accurate, of course, but I don't like that it was John who told Sherlock that. I want John to be caught up in the Sherlock-worship. In canon, he's much more that: there are lines where he calls Holmes his "master," and "the man whom above all others I revere."

I think the creators of this show wanted to make Watson more equal to Holmes, because it's unlikely they would be friends if John were constantly fawning over him. Sherlock wouldn't have the patience for it after a while. I think it balances out better this way because, even though Sherlock is clearly the 'leader' in the relationship, they both give and take much more than in the original stories, and it's a more believable scenario for two modern day men.

SherlocklivesinOH · January 17, 2014 5:15 pm

sj4iy wrote:
SherlocklivesinOH wrote:
Oh, and to follow up on my discussion of Anderson vs. John: Doesn't John have a line something like, "The press always turn. They'll turn against you?"

Which turns out to be accurate, of course, but I don't like that it was John who told Sherlock that. I want John to be caught up in the Sherlock-worship. In canon, he's much more that: there are lines where he calls Holmes his "master," and "the man whom above all others I revere."
I think the creators of this show wanted to make Watson more equal to Holmes, because it's unlikely they would be friends if John were constantly fawning over him. Sherlock wouldn't have the patience for it after a while. I think it balances out better this way because, even though Sherlock is clearly the 'leader' in the relationship, they both give and take much more than in the original stories, and it's a more believable scenario for two modern day men.

John's warning about the press turning makes it sound like Sherlock is loving the attention and John is afraid he's getting too "hooked" on it. Do you think that was the case? Sherlock is notorious for not caring what anyone thinks of him...maybe it's more like he doesn't care if people think he's a jerk, but he does want them to think he's a genius and a great detective.

And, after all, if enough people are convinced he's a fake, he won't get any cases, and then he'll be bored. That's the kind of thing that motivates an "Aspie."

dartmoordoggers · January 17, 2014 6:27 pm

sj4iy wrote:
SherlocklivesinOH wrote:
Oh, and to follow up on my discussion of Anderson vs. John: Doesn't John have a line something like, "The press always turn. They'll turn against you?"

Which turns out to be accurate, of course, but I don't like that it was John who told Sherlock that. I want John to be caught up in the Sherlock-worship. In canon, he's much more that: there are lines where he calls Holmes his "master," and "the man whom above all others I revere."
I think the creators of this show wanted to make Watson more equal to Holmes, because it's unlikely they would be friends if John were constantly fawning over him. Sherlock wouldn't have the patience for it after a while. I think it balances out better this way because, even though Sherlock is clearly the 'leader' in the relationship, they both give and take much more than in the original stories, and it's a more believable scenario for two modern day men.

I agree. And I think they have pushed that a lot more in this series.