SolarSystem wrote:

zeratul wrote:

Btw about SHerlock loosing his analytic skills. Remember in The sign of three, when he is drunk and not able to deduct? We are even shown the weird thoughts of him. So how could he deduct CAM when being on morphine? I think this is to blame...

I think it's that in combination with emotions that get in his way. And like someone mentioned before: it is a vicious circle of some sort at this point, because on the one hand we want him to show more emotions, on the other hand we want him to be the clever detective with those mind-blowing analytical skills. It seems we can't have both at the same time, and it will be interesting to see how this will develop in Series 4.
When Mycroft says to Sherlock on the phone that he hopes Sherlock has learned his lesson, maybe he's also referring to emotions...? Maybe Sherlock now has learned that caring really isn't an advantage, that it gets in his way (something he has propagated in the first two series himself) and that he has to find a way to... solve this problem.

Yes the emotions are to blame. But aren't the drugs, too?
interesting point about Sherlock could have learned the lesson to not care, because I only thought of the penilty...

First I have to say that I liked the episode on the whole. I thought most of it was brilliantly done, but I do have some issues with a few things.

Everything's very foggy and unclear in HLV. On the one hand, I like that, because it gives lots of space for your own interpretation, but on the other hand, it's too much here, at least for me. I'm with John here "I don't understand" and "I still don't understand".

Most of all it bothers me that Mary, as someone said before, has become more than an "extra". She is far too clever to not help them solve crimes. It wouldn't be believable... and they are asking too much to believe already. Which is okay. I'm absolutely happy to go with everything that has come up so far. But it's getting close to the edge.  Mary solving crimes with John and Sherlock? That's not really what I want to see.

I don't mind new dynamics, but there certainly is the danger of going too far. The way it is now - now being the while episode 3 -  it feels very, very unbalanced. Sherlock needs John way more than John needs Sherlock. John almost has his own Sherlock now, Mary. Mary is equally messed up as John and Sherlock are. ... and it's threatening to become even more unbalanced with a baby on the way.  I think a certain balance is more important than just being unpredictable and mind-blowing all the time.

On the other hand, I have no clue what the Moff is planning at the moment. It could even things out in a matter of twenty minutes. You never know.

Hera wrote:

I think a certain balance is more important than just being unpredictable and mind-blowing all the time.

I agree, although I have to say that on the whole I found Series 1 & 2 far more mind-blowing than Series 3. And I can understand that you can't just constantly blow people's minds, but in case of HLV they sometimes tried to blow my mind with the wrong stuff.
Which doesn't mean that I didn't like it, I did. But in comparison with the episodes of Series 1 & 2 there is more stuff here that I wasn't completely happy with.

Stayin Alive wrote:

I don't like it either for a season finale episode. Nothing was surprising really. I guess the only people who may have enjoyed this episode would be people who:

-- didn't know CAM would die.
-- are over-fascinated with the over-use of the mind palace.
-- didn't know Sherlock could fake a romantic relationship.
-- thought Moriarty was dead.

HLV started off pretty good, then it just got slow and boring. It suited the part of a boring second/middle episode like Blind Banker and HoB -- in MY opinion ofcourse! I think many fans get too over-emotional about the storyline and look too deep into trivial things and forget that this is Sherlock Holmes we're talking about. No amount of good acting, humor nor mind palaces could compensate for the fact that this entire season certainly did not live up to expectations. I certainly would not be at the edge of my seat waiting for season 4 like I was after TRF. Whenever it comes, it comes. I feel very cheaply cheated after a 2 year wait. Don't know bout you guys, but that's my HONEST impression.
 

 
I'd certainly agree with you on all but the "thought Moriarty is dead" thing. It's just being used as the drawcard for the next episode in my opinion. He's 6 ft under for sure. (but that's another thread's debate lol)

Certainly the mind palace has been done a few times too many. Yes it was great first time, even 2nd & third in the early series, but it has now become ludicrously over the top in both usage & viewing. Same as the words on the screen when Sherlock analyses someone/ some place etc. The first time it was used way back in the first show was good, occasional uses through other shows were good but when used as he 'summed up' Mary first time, the words came too thick & fast, no obvious connection as to how he decided these things; it wasn't clever it was a muddled mess. I saw many complaints across the internet that people couldn't read it at all.

The same happened with various things that were 'brilliant, innovative' during the first 2 series; they were mentioned when people talked about awards & how brilliant the production was. So it seems like the production team said " hey we'll do that again and again because they liked that".  That's not how to keep an audience spellbound, showing the same tricks over & over.
It really made it feel like they had a small script & just filled in the blanks with 'what worked before'.
Speaking of filling in the blanks; the final 'explanation' of the fall was 'shoved in' during trying to disarm the bomb on the train. It really didn't fit there. It was like they had that part filmed and suddenly they realised " where are we going to put that one?"

Series 1 & 2 flowed beautifully; this series 'clunked' from one thought to the next and I think this was the biggest disappointment for me and many others from what I have read. The premise of the show is good and could be tightened up again if they work at it. I really felt as if they just 'threw something together' and called it "Series 3"; they knew 'we were coming ' why couldn't they prepare a feast like they have done before. And that is why many people feel insulted. Let's hope we are not disatisfied again.

sherlocked wrote:

................., that you are left with the impression, that you cannot take anything serious, you are presented with, anymore. And that is very much against the spirit of the original Holmes stories, which make the point that everything is explained, even if the plot strains reality quite a bit. ........

That is a key point that I forgot to address also.
Gatiss has 'defused' that by suddenly this season saying " Oh it's not a detective story, it's a story about a detective" which is NOT how they set out to do these series. I recall an early interview where they said part of the glory is showing the viewer all that needed to be seen to solve the cases, yet we miss these things till Sherlock shows us. That doesn't happen anymore, hence they changed the description of the show to suit their new agenda.
They wanted to make a show that ACD fans loved & could relate to, and to introduce the magic of ACD's Sherlock Holmes to others. By not keeping to that formula, they HAVE disappointed those who watched for that reason.

I guess it proves that writing in the same style as ACD is not something they can keep doing anymore. Sad really.

There really seem to be an ACD- and a BBC-Sherlock-side. I liked the show (and no, not just for all the feelings and the bromance!!!), but I can understand both "sides".
But what has been criticized as "they filled in the blanks with 'what worked before'." is very important to keep IMO.
To repeat certain things like the texts on screen (e.g. deductions) and the mind palace scenes, because this is how Sherlock works and how we know and like him. It is something I would miss if they would say: OK, it has been enough in S1 and S2, we just stop it now. Wrong!

gently69 wrote:

Well... everyone has a different taste. I'm fine with how it is now. There are so many adaptions of the canon and most are in ACD style I think. So if somenone wants to watch "pure" canon stuff... has to switch the programme... IMO

gently69, I think, the writers are free to do with the show, whatever they want. It's their artistic decision, and the overwelmingly positive reactions prove them right. And I'm really not that hung up on canon. I just expressed my personal disappointment about that change from a detective show to a show about a detective. We have to wait and see, how it will turn out in season 4. In season 2, they managed very well to handle both aspects of the show. Maybe, they will manage that again in season 4.

Last edited by sherlocked (January 15, 2014 4:08 pm)

The adress of the HLV review, I gave above, is overlycriticalreview. wordpress.com, not overlycriticaleview.com. I fixed it in my post above.
It's well worth reading.

Last edited by sherlocked (January 15, 2014 4:23 pm)

Mattlocked wrote:

To repeat certain things like the texts on screen (e.g. deductions) and the mind palace scenes, because this is how Sherlock works and how we know and like him. It is something I would miss if they would say: OK, it has been enough in S1 and S2, we just stop it now. Wrong!

Funnywise I never thought there was so much of a repetition. The onscreen texts are very much different now, aestheticwise I mean. And the mind palace really reached another (psychological) dimension now. In the films before it was more shown from an outside perspective. So for me they have put a lot more new elements to the show, while quoting the old ones in a different way. It has developed and I think/hope that they have in the next season again other things on which they go on.

Mattlocked wrote:

I think this is exactly what Staying Alive means. The mind palace from the outside - and now from the inside. And very detailed. Very. I like it, but I get your point. I think it was brilliantly made but somehow it doesn't fit completely.

Hm, why not? For me it fit . I think it´s boring after some series if you don´t show something which goes deeper (here even literally).
I just remember a friend right now who also watched "Sherlock" and likes it. TRF we watched together once, and his criticism was, that neither in the ACD books nor in "Sherlock" he could get Holmes/Sherlock right and watch him from an emotional POV. He stayed a kind of claimed figure for him, not really out of blood and flesh. Don´t misunderstand: He loved the actors, they were not the reason for his opinion, it was more the kind of characterization which Sherlock Holmes has also in the books for him. Though I don´t think so, especially not with "Sherlock", I know exactly what he means. And I am excited to see how he will find this now.

Last edited by anjaH_alias (January 15, 2014 5:31 pm)