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January 14, 2014 7:38 pm  #61


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

I really enjoyed this one, except it did slow down too much (for me) with the bad guy.
Did Sherlock really shoot him? I doubt it. Is Moriarity dead? No. Can we believe what we see or what we are told? I don't think so.
I am laughing becuse I remember Mark Gatiss mentioning Star Trek (and Spock) in one of the PBS interviews.
Of course- Sherlock BBC is like Star Trek. You could never believe your eyes. It's a game. A joke. Played on the viewers. The writers are playing the audience. Spock came back to life too.
So I am enjoying the game. 
I am delighted Moriarty is back too. Jim is fun. Sherlock needs him.
I wonder when the next Series will be out? Not soon enough.

Last edited by Aujouret (January 14, 2014 7:40 pm)

 

January 14, 2014 7:45 pm  #62


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

Aujouret, I wouldn't be so sure that Moriarty is back.. it'd be great though because he was brilliant and a one-of-a-kind villain.


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January 14, 2014 7:58 pm  #63


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

Aujouret wrote:

I really enjoyed this one, except it did slow down too much (for me) with the bad guy.
Did Sherlock really shoot him? I doubt it. Is Moriarity dead? No. Can we believe what we see or what we are told? I don't think so.
I am laughing becuse I remember Mark Gatiss mentioning Star Trek (and Spock) in one of the PBS interviews.
Of course- Sherlock BBC is like Star Trek. You could never believe your eyes. It's a game. A joke. Played on the viewers. The writers are playing the audience. Spock came back to life too.
So I am enjoying the game. 
I am delighted Moriarty is back too. Jim is fun. Sherlock needs him.
I wonder when the next Series will be out? Not soon enough.

Ha, so I wasn't the only one who thought of Startrek with this episode. The mind palace, the flashbacks and flashforwards reminded me of some of the better episodes of TNG. 
 

 

January 14, 2014 8:29 pm  #64


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

I'm really glad they didn't opt for a cliffhanger ending too and I think it will also please ordinary non-fandom viewers like my parents who say they find the cliffhangers "annoying". This felt more like a traditional series ending, which was nice. There was a resolution to the storyline, followed by hints and teasers at what might be to come.

I agree that TRF wasn't a proper cliffhanger either, because we knew Sherlock was still alive. The agonising wait was due to the fact that we didn't know how he survived and more painfully, the fact that John didn't know and was clearly going through a lot of emotions and grief at the loss of his friend. That was what I found so torturous about Reichenbach.

Anyway, what TRF did do, was leave us with a question (lots of them!) and things to ponder during the hiatus, which is exactly what HLV did but in a different kind of way. This time, the questions are "IS MORIARTY REALLY ALIVE? IF SO, HOW DID HE SURVIVE? IF NOT, WHO IS IT BEHIND THE VIDEOS?"

They will keep the fandom going for a while, which is what they intended, as well as discussing the other finer points of the TEH and TSOT, including that old favourite "how did Sherlock survive".

I don't think they needed to end on a mega cliffhanger and although we were promised it - and indeed, promised an emotionally painful episode - I actually felt quite happy and positive at the end. I had a bit of a cry immediately after Sherlock shot Magnussen because I honestly thought he was going to have to go away again, but then I cheered up significantly at the Moriarty twist.

I'm glad they didn't end with Sherlock going off on the plane. It would have been too similar to TRF in as much that Sherlock has to "go away" and go on hiatus, essentially. It would basically have been TRF without the mystery, which wouldn't have been much of an ending at all, just a sort of fizzle out ending, not very exciting. The final twist had much more drama to it and although I really don't like the idea of Moriarty being back, I still genuinely think it's not him, there's another explanation and there'll be another twist to it.

The thing I find the most interesting though, is this...so far, none of the fandom have ever been able to predict any of the episodes. They always surprise us. Can they keep this up? Or will we guess what the Moriarty thing is about by the time Series 4 comes out?


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January 14, 2014 8:59 pm  #65


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

Some people claim to have guessed the phone call ending the Pool stand off.
I know some people on here had brilliant, well worked out theories for Reichenbach...and who knows?  Maybe they were right!
I suppose since S2 we've always at least been given a clue about the series and were told I think IN S2 . which stories were basically gonna be covered..
I know some people have gussed certain aspects that could be used ' a false engagement', etc and we've always kind of known which villains would be covered.
Tho CAM's demise was a surprise to me!
Oh I never spotted Jim with Molly, tho I know others did!
I think we all knew Mary was gonna be a little bad ass...  but not quite so much!


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January 14, 2014 9:08 pm  #66


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

I'm really glad they didn't opt for a cliffhanger ending too and I think it will also please ordinary non-fandom viewers like my parents who say they find the cliffhangers "annoying". This felt more like a traditional series ending, which was nice. There was a resolution to the storyline, followed by hints and teasers at what might be to come.

I agree that TRF wasn't a proper cliffhanger either, because we knew Sherlock was still alive. The agonising wait was due to the fact that we didn't know how he survived and more painfully, the fact that John didn't know and was clearly going through a lot of emotions and grief at the loss of his friend. That was what I found so torturous about Reichenbach.

Anyway, what TRF did do, was leave us with a question (lots of them!) and things to ponder during the hiatus, which is exactly what HLV did but in a different kind of way. This time, the questions are "IS MORIARTY REALLY ALIVE? IF SO, HOW DID HE SURVIVE? IF NOT, WHO IS IT BEHIND THE VIDEOS?"

They will keep the fandom going for a while, which is what they intended, as well as discussing the other finer points of the TEH and TSOT, including that old favourite "how did Sherlock survive".

I don't think they needed to end on a mega cliffhanger and although we were promised it - and indeed, promised an emotionally painful episode - I actually felt quite happy and positive at the end. I had a bit of a cry immediately after Sherlock shot Magnussen because I honestly thought he was going to have to go away again, but then I cheered up significantly at the Moriarty twist.

I'm glad they didn't end with Sherlock going off on the plane. It would have been too similar to TRF in as much that Sherlock has to "go away" and go on hiatus, essentially. It would basically have been TRF without the mystery, which wouldn't have been much of an ending at all, just a sort of fizzle out ending, not very exciting. The final twist had much more drama to it and although I really don't like the idea of Moriarty being back, I still genuinely think it's not him, there's another explanation and there'll be another twist to it.

The thing I find the most interesting though, is this...so far, none of the fandom have ever been able to predict any of the episodes. They always surprise us. Can they keep this up? Or will we guess what the Moriarty thing is about by the time Series 4 comes out?

I agreed with everything you just said here. And I'm fully intending to make it as difficult as possible for the Moftiss to surprise me. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/lol.png


But just as with Reichenbach, I don't think the answer to the question will be the main surprise. The Reichenbach answer was guessed more or less by the fandom, and the writers cleverly managed to surprise us in other ways. There are five or six theories now about Moriarty and I'm predicting that the right one is already among them. Don't know which, though I do have a personal favorite so far. 

Noooo, they're gonna surprise us with new villains, unexpected plot twists, character arcs and relationships. 
 

 

January 14, 2014 9:12 pm  #67


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

I know it's slightly off topic but since we're talking about a cliffhanger - did people ever wonder if John had asked to see Sherlock's body after the fall?
I understand as a friend he would have thought it really hard to see his corpse, but wouldn't he have wanted to see him, maybe say his goodbyes, do a wake, something?

Because if he did, and Mycroft had said something 'oh no you can't', or even if they fasttracked his funeral and burial, he would have thought there was something suspicious?

 

January 14, 2014 9:14 pm  #68


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

I think he said all his goodbyes at the grave.


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January 14, 2014 9:16 pm  #69


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

The thing I find the most interesting though, is this...so far, none of the fandom have ever been able to predict any of the episodes. They always surprise us. Can they keep this up? Or will we guess what the Moriarty thing is about by the time Series 4 comes out?

In my opinion it will be rather difficult to guess what will happen in Series 4. The ending of HLV came pretty much out of nowhere and we don't really have anything to go on. To me, there are only two possible explanations: either it's Mycroft's doing in order to bring Sherlock back immediately; or it's the doing of a new villain we don't know yet. Of course it's possible that I'm overlooking a clue (or clues) that's hidden somewhere in the episode, but if I only take the ending... difficult.


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January 15, 2014 3:19 am  #70


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

IIt would have been too similar to TRF in as much that Sherlock has to "go away" and go on hiatus, essentially. It would basically have been TRF without the mystery...

And, indeed, this time the hiatus itself will look quite different. It is amazing how the (cocial media-supported) momentum built between series 2 and 3, but now the show is a frontrunner and super-popular. Without a question, innocent and coincidental developments will now look far more contrieved etc. There is so much at stake by now.

No wonder series 4 will be fast tracked!

 

January 15, 2014 5:14 am  #71


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

For what it's worth, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Moriarty is still alive.  Even when watching TRF, I never quite bought that he was dead.


============================================================
"The name's Sherlock Holmes and the address is 221b Baker Street. Afternoon..."

Sherlock: You're a doctor. In fact you're an army doctor.
Watson: Yes.
Sherlock: Any good?
Watson: Very good.
Sherlock: Seen a lot of injuries then. Violent deaths.
Watson: Well. Yes.
Sherlock: Bit of trouble too I bet.
Watson: Of course. Yes. Enough for a lifetime. Far too much.
Sherlock: Wanna see some more?
Watson: Oh god yes.
 

January 15, 2014 6:38 am  #72


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

I totally thought he was dead and I still think he might be!
Would like him to still be alive, tho!


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January 15, 2014 8:00 am  #73


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

I think it would make sense if he - as in Jim Moriarty himself - is dead, because it would make sense to try and make us believe that and then give us the twist that that was in fact something else.

I think someone connected to Jim, but not Jim himself.

 

January 15, 2014 9:33 am  #74


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

I´m convinced Moriarty is dead. Sherlock has been breaking his net for two years - he´d found out Moriarty was still alive and active. Question is - did Sherlock expect someone of Moriarty´s men to appear like this? And does he know who is it really? 


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January 15, 2014 12:34 pm  #75


Re: Why all the fuss about the cliffhanger?

Cliffhanger? There was a cliffhanger? http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/confused.png

 


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