Ozma wrote:

I think we had our logical explanation...

Pressure points are those things that elicit reactions in people, right?

Well.. Sherlock is leaving on a suicide mission, John won't see him for 6 months, but possibly ever again.
What's John's reaction? NOT.EVEN.ONE.LITTLE.TEAR.

Here you go. No pressure point for Sherlock there.

Hm well he has lost him once and now he got Mary...
 

beekeeper wrote:

I don't think Moftiss will have made a mistake regarding Sherlock not being John's. I think that is a huge deal. I think it shows how much things have moved on for John. And that bit at the end where he goes off...getting married and having a baby changes you. There is no way on this earth that any half decent father or mother would put their relationship with Sherlock above their kid. One thing I think Mofatt stands out for writing realistically and well is parental emotions.

 She's only pregnant at this stage, do you really think there will be a baby?

I don't think Sherlock told John that it was a suicide mission. He said he's just gonna be away for 6 months and didn't know what after. And John is not so very good at showing his emotions either. 

And CAM is not omnicient. 

But Sherlock told John, they won't see each other again?

Last edited by zeratul (January 13, 2014 10:42 am)

Ozma wrote:

kazza474 wrote:

beekeeper wrote:

I don't think Moftiss will have made a mistake regarding Sherlock not being John's. I think that is a huge deal. I think it shows how much things have moved on for John. And that bit at the end where he goes off...getting married and having a baby changes you. There is no way on this earth that any half decent father or mother would put their relationship with Sherlock above their kid. One thing I think Mofatt stands out for writing realistically and well is parental emotions.

 She's only pregnant at this stage, do you really think there will be a baby?

I don't think so. Unless they start series 4 with another jump in time, and the baby is already born and grown up a bit, too. (God, I HOPE NOT).

I heard Amanda Abbington said something along the lines of, she was very happy to play Mary because 'she gets to die in John's arms.'

Has anyone else heard this anywhere?

 

they have always honoured real time in some way, so they have always, I think, set the series at the correct time by the end of the episode (I am not 100% sure about this with SiB actually but thereabouts). Anyway, that makes the whole baby thing a bit interesting because if we have another two years to wait then we are looking at a toddler.

OTOH the experience of losing a child is going to be an amazingly devastating one. Its something Moffat has handled before,pretty well and effectively for prime time kids tv, in Dr Who with the Amy Pond/River Song arc, though that was a bit of a dodge in some ways. Its a hard one because any possibility of Mary being content to keep the home fires burning and stay home while John goes and has adventues has been a bit scuppered too really, she's obviously not that type and that's why she's great.  

So for me I think this is the big mystery. How are they going to deal with this? Very interested to see. I am certainly in the camp who is glad we have Mary and glad she survived the episode.

The one way I can see round it is for it all to be too dangerous for Mary and the baby/toddler/teenager (hopefully we are not going to have to wait that long) and so they are packed off to the countryside, kind of how Russell T Davies got around Gwen having a child in Torchwood.

I am wondering a little if there will be echoes of Laurie King's Mary Russell books here...

Last edited by beekeeper (January 13, 2014 3:57 pm)

kazza474 wrote:

beekeeper wrote:

I don't think Moftiss will have made a mistake regarding Sherlock not being John's. I think that is a huge deal. I think it shows how much things have moved on for John. And that bit at the end where he goes off...getting married and having a baby changes you. There is no way on this earth that any half decent father or mother would put their relationship with Sherlock above their kid. One thing I think Mofatt stands out for writing realistically and well is parental emotions.

 She's only pregnant at this stage, do you really think there will be a baby?

I agree, Sherlock's not a pressure point for John, at least not any longer, and he can never have priority as opposed to the mother of John's child. That's why their good bye scene was so sad for me. It becomes plain as day in this episode that Sherlock is actually in love (though, the hints were there in the last episodes). But when faced with it, John can't return it, at least not with a pregnant wife on his side.
That's why John is so distant, sighs when having to remain in private with him at the extremely embarrassing good bye scene, can hardly look Sherlock in the eye. He is visibly relieved when instead of Sherlock's apparent love confession he hears only a joke with baby names. Because what could he say to that? I agree he's not good at expressing tender emotions but I've felt more an embarrassement of maybe guilt and inertia in this case. And Sherlock understands it, doesn't press it, just steps aside to let the "happy family live", even if heart-broken.

During the 2. season John seemed more obsessed with Sherlock than the other way round, but maybe he "greived out his feelings" for 2 years and went on. He's had several opportunities (and now also reasons) to dismiss Mary since Sherlock's return but he's never opted to, not even to postpone the wedding, made Mary pregnant instead. Though he still cares and misses Sherlock as a very special companion of his, he never wanted to sacrifice his future new life with Mary. And now with a baby on the way, he would never make a sacrifice for him on account of losing his family.
I might be wrong but that's what I thought about pressure points...

 

Aytoun wrote:

My take on this is that the pressure points are things that have the potential for blackmail rather than it being just a list of things/people that the person cares about, which would explain why Sherlock isn't on John's list or indeed on Mrs Hudson's.

I agree.

and @omegasazalfa, to make you feel a little better, I do think you are reading too much into it.
John wasn't annoyed at being left alone with Sherlock; he just represses his emotions and of course If you aren’t a person who deals well with intimacy/expressing your feelings, then you are going to feel uncomfortable in an emotional moment.
He didn’t even cry when he saw Sherlock alive after 2 years of believing him dead!
Sherlock is much better at the crying/being emotional thing than he is (and this is something!) perhaps because he is a bit of a child inside still. I lost count of all the times his eyes went red in the series… J

Tee Hee.

I agree that Sherlock is not a pressure point for John, as John would believe Sherlock capable of out-smarting anyone who tried to blackmail him using Sherlock. CAM is, Sherlock tells us, 'The Napoleon of blackmail'. I do wonder how CAM could use Redbeard to blackmail Sherlock. I have a feeling there is more to the Redbeard story than just being a family pet that was put down. CAM he has a 'file' on it. When he says 'Redbeard', Sherlock looks shaken and stutters.

I'm also intrigued as to what the Porn Preference means. Elizabeth Smallwood does have a porn preference, it is 'None'. I don't know why Sherlocks isn't None too. There's obviously some distinction between Normal and None if CAM bothers to differentiate them. Smallwood also had heading Vices: None, which I don't remember seeing for anyone else. I don't know if maybe CAM just searches until he finds what he can use ... And I don't know why Sherlocks pressure points were listed over and over again.

For Johns reaction to Sherlock going away, I'd guess he was trying to protect himself. He'd already greived for Sherlock for two years. I would imagine knowing he was going to lose him again he would try and distance himself as far as he could as he knows what he death had done to him before.   I found his the scene where he 'spoke' to him in the graveyard incredibly emotional. He knew Sherlock had heard that, what else would he have left to say?

I was just waiting for you to say that!
Well considering Sherlock just put a bullet in somebody's temple for John, his love is rather out in the open now.