BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Mary

Pav · January 13, 2014 11:32 am

I still like her too. And I don't find it difficult to believe that John forgave her. He does love her after all. And I think it also helped that Sherlock had forgiven her. I mean, if he can do it even though she shot him, John can definitely at least try it.

anjaH_alias · January 13, 2014 11:33 am

silverblaze wrote:
But the whole point was that it would have been MUCH better, logically, to kill both Sherlock and Magnussen. Instead she saved his life and his reputation.

I like her. And I like what she brings to the relationship. It'll keep the bromance interesting.

Definetely. I like her much more than in the previous episodes. And we shouldn´t forget - although we might not understand their friendship for us/our lives - there are three sociopaths (more or less) going along :-). As we know now also John is not without certain traits. And the series is far away from any political correctness - that´s what I appreciate.

Ozma · January 13, 2014 11:40 am

anjaH_alias wrote:
silverblaze wrote:
But the whole point was that it would have been MUCH better, logically, to kill both Sherlock and Magnussen. Instead she saved his life and his reputation.

I like her. And I like what she brings to the relationship. It'll keep the bromance interesting.
Definetely. I like her much more than in the previous episodes. And we shouldn´t forget - although we might not understand their friendship for us/our lives - there are three sociopaths (more or less) going along :-). As we know now also John is not without certain traits. And the series is far away from any political correctness - that´s what I appreciate.

Yes, ok.

I just find it difficult to accept that she saved his life, as in, she didn’t really want him to die. She makes a face when John tells her he’s pulled through (like, Oh shit! I hadn’t planned this) and then in the fake house she threatens to shoot him again, saying she will do ANYTHING to keep John from leaving her.

I get they are sociopaths and flawed, but at least Sherlock and John have some good in them, whereas all Mary did was for herself and to keep the things she wanted. I just can’t see how this is good.

MissMe? · January 13, 2014 11:40 am

So let's assume she'll stay around (and the baby, too). How's that gonna work?

"Oh, hey honey. I'm off throwing myself in danger's way with Sherlock. Don't wait up, probably won't be home in time for dinner. *smooches*"

I could have imagined them as a triangle sort of thing, but the baby changes everything. One does not simply go chase after crazy psychopaths with a baby at home.

Davina · January 13, 2014 11:44 am

It is a bit like she is The Black Widow in The Avengers though isn't it?

MissMe? · January 13, 2014 11:48 am

^^^ lol. Yesss!

anjaH_alias · January 13, 2014 11:52 am

Ozma wrote:
anjaH_alias wrote:
silverblaze wrote:
But the whole point was that it would have been MUCH better, logically, to kill both Sherlock and Magnussen. Instead she saved his life and his reputation.

I like her. And I like what she brings to the relationship. It'll keep the bromance interesting.
Definetely. I like her much more than in the previous episodes. And we shouldn´t forget - although we might not understand their friendship for us/our lives - there are three sociopaths (more or less) going along :-). As we know now also John is not without certain traits. And the series is far away from any political correctness - that´s what I appreciate.
Yes, ok.

I just find it difficult to accept that she saved his life, as in, she didn’t really want him to die. She makes a face when John tells her he’s pulled through (like, Oh shit! I hadn’t planned this) and then in the fake house she threatens to shoot him again, saying she will do ANYTHING to keep John from leaving her.

I get they are sociopaths and flawed, but at least Sherlock and John have some good in them, whereas all Mary did was for herself and to keep the things she wanted. I just can’t see how this is good.

I interpret her face differently, I couldn´t see something like "shit! he is still living". But I have to watch it again.
And according "saving his life" - that´s what Sherlock says, probably to help John coming over it. I also see it more as "she didn´t want him to die".

Last edited by anjaH_alias (January 13, 2014 11:52 am)

Ozma · January 13, 2014 1:21 pm

How can you not, though? Once she got told that Sherlock was still alive, she made sure to run to the poor lamb's bedside and threaten him to keep his mouth shut...

arrrrg my blood boils just remembering this!

Mattlocked · January 13, 2014 1:28 pm

She didn't pull a face. She was truly relieved. AND concerned - because now he might talk to John.

sj4iy · January 13, 2014 1:57 pm

I'm not worried about how Mary or a baby will or won't fit into the show, because the writers will take care of that, and I quite trust them to do it without comprimising the show's integrity. By telling us that "John is addicted to danger", they pretty much quashed any ideas that he would be able to give up his lifestyle so easily. I just empathize with her position...she had to get away. She could no longer kill Magnussen without John becoming a suspect, she couldn't have Sherlock telling him, and she knew Magnussen wouldn't say a word...for a price. Her only option was to shoot Sherlock, but she didn't want to do it. She made a mistake by not trusting him and coming to him in the first place...THAT was her mistake. And it's an understandable mistake to make in her position. She had worked very hard to leave her other life behind, even found someone who would love her, and was pregnant with his child...things she probably thought she'd never have. And to see it suddenly all be threatened by a scumbag like Magnussen? To see that happy life that she had worked so hard to build up be swept away in an instant...it was too much for her. She was too scared to tell Sherlock, because she thought he would tell John, so she tried to take care of it the only way she knew how. Imagine if you had done some horrible in your life, and you've tried to move on from it, and you finally thought you did. Then imagine Magnussen comes along. What would you do?

silverblaze · January 13, 2014 2:09 pm

If Mary were really selfish and wanted Sherlock to die she would've shot him and Magnussen in the head. She didn't, therefore she wasn't. They explained that pretty well in the episode.

silverblaze · January 13, 2014 2:15 pm

sj4iy wrote:
She was too scared to tell Sherlock, because she thought he would tell John, so she tried to take care of it the only way she knew how.

Well, she was spot on, wasn't she?

And I share your faith in the writers. There's probably some nice comedy and drama in having adrenaline junkies John and Mary trying to be normal whilst being adrenaline junkies.

Besides, I'm not sure that Sherlock will forgive Mycroft the four minute 'excursion', so there might be some brotherly fighting for us in store as well.

Moftiss, try to stay under the two years this time, please?

Weirdness · January 13, 2014 2:18 pm

silverblaze wrote:
If Mary were really selfish and wanted Sherlock to die she would've shot him and Magnussen in the head. She didn't, therefore she wasn't. They explained that pretty well in the episode.

By selfish I meant that she will do anything to keep John while Sherlock will do anything to protect him even if he can't be wherever John is at. She basically said she would do anything in the empty house.

She also confirmed with Sherlock that John was at CAM's office before shooting. If she had shot and killed both Sherlock and CAM then John would have been a suspect to the murders. She didn't want anything to affect her and John.

sj4iy · January 13, 2014 2:19 pm

Weirdness wrote:
silverblaze wrote:
If Mary were really selfish and wanted Sherlock to die she would've shot him and Magnussen in the head. She didn't, therefore she wasn't. They explained that pretty well in the episode.

By selfish I meant that she will do anything to keep John while Sherlock will do anything to protect him even if he can't be wherever John is at. She basically said she would do anything in the empty house.

She also confirmed with Sherlock that John was at CAM's office before shooting. If she had shot and killed both Sherlock and CAM then John would have been a suspect to the murders. She didn't want anything to affect her and John.

How is that anymore selfish than what Sherlock did by kiling Magnussen to protect John and Mary?

dartmoordoggers · January 13, 2014 2:25 pm

Probably a bit pissed at Sherlock as well

If he hadnt turned up with her husband she would have executed Magnussen and all her problems would have been over.

tonnaree · January 13, 2014 2:27 pm

I think what Mary did was very much what Sherlock would've done in the same situation.

Can you not see Sherlock thinking to himself "Hmmm. The only way out of this is for me to shoot you but I don't want you to die so I will shoot you in the most precise manner to maximise your chances of survival while still making it look like I intended to kill you."

Plus she calls the ambulance.

Ozma · January 13, 2014 2:47 pm

Swanpride wrote:
She could have shot only Sherlock and left CAM alive.

And, btw, Mary being away or sitting at home while Watson is off with Holmes to solve cases is exactly what happens in Canon.

I am confused - doesn't Mary die before Sherlock even comes back?

anjaH_alias · January 13, 2014 2:50 pm

Ozma wrote:
Swanpride wrote:
She could have shot only Sherlock and left CAM alive.

And, btw, Mary being away or sitting at home while Watson is off with Holmes to solve cases is exactly what happens in Canon.
I am confused - doesn't Mary die before Sherlock even comes back?

Jipp, but she lives during quite a couple of stories together with John. Just the chronology of the stories is another one.

Weirdness · January 13, 2014 2:52 pm

sj4iy wrote:
Weirdness wrote:
silverblaze wrote:
If Mary were really selfish and wanted Sherlock to die she would've shot him and Magnussen in the head. She didn't, therefore she wasn't. They explained that pretty well in the episode.

By selfish I meant that she will do anything to keep John while Sherlock will do anything to protect him even if he can't be wherever John is at. She basically said she would do anything in the empty house.

She also confirmed with Sherlock that John was at CAM's office before shooting. If she had shot and killed both Sherlock and CAM then John would have been a suspect to the murders. She didn't want anything to affect her and John.
How is that anymore selfish than what Sherlock did by kiling Magnussen to protect John and Mary?

Okay, maybe selfish was not the correct term. To clarify I see Mary as wanting to keep John with her no matter what (although I don't doubt she would give her life to keep him alive) while Sherlock would do anything to keep him (and now Mary too) safe even if they end up never seeing each other again.

In a way, they are both selfish and selfless. It all leads back to their love of John in the end.

Hope this makes sense.

Ozma · January 13, 2014 3:01 pm

Ok. So Mofftiss would still be in canon at the moment.

I thought they had completely changed it. Well, apart from the baby....