BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » First Reactions...

LoveBug54 · January 13, 2014 3:14 am

KeepersPrice wrote:
Haven't sorted this out in my head yet. Not quite what I expected. Did we actually see Sherlock kill a man? That's usually John's job. I remember huge debate threads on here a year or two ago concerning whether of not Sherlock would actually kill someone - as it is not found in canon. Still processing this bit.

Since Moffat seems to be relying more on Baring-Gould than the Canon nowadays anything is possible. The name William Sherlock Scott Holmes and the existence of another brother are not Canonical, any more than is Holmes' alleged affair with Irene Adler.

SilverMoonDragonB · January 13, 2014 3:23 am

I'm just...wow, not sure what to say really. Still recovering...admittedly, it wasn't as "bad" a cliffhanger as I thought. Personally, I still think TRF was worse. I didn't think the cliffhanger and ending of HLV was more (or less) emotionally impacting as TRF. It was emotional, no question. Several John moments, Sherlock moments, and Sherlock and John moments broke my heart. And overall, it was a great episode. I need to watch it again though, to get a proper feel for it (had some laptop problems and I was a bit askew with worry and such about it). Still, I really liked it. It was very well done, Sherlock...wow, Sherlock has gone through an incredible character journey in this series. The scene where he is shot (*kirk voice* MAAARY! ) and the scenes in his mind palace there, plus the part near the end where Sherlock looks at John (god, the emotion there...I cried) shoots CAM and then kneels down, and you get this flash of him as child...that was so incredibly symbolic in a way that made my heart ache.
It really feels like Sherlock and John's relationship is going through some changes...some, when I think about it, are necessary to their well being and connection with each other. I firmly believe, eventually, they'll come out even more bonded and closer than ever.
As for Moriarty....well, my first reaction was..."WHAT???" and then "Oh you sneaky, little Sherlock writers!" It was a big surprise, and made me realize I do actually miss Moriarty a tad... Of course there are theories that could support him still being dead, but I do think he's alive...so, I guess this is what we'll be theorizing about for the next while...Not how Sherlock survived, but how Moriarty did? It is an interesting, and funny twist when you think about it.
And Mary...well, I was expecting to sympathize with her more...but I barely do. I don't...hate her per se, but I definitely don't like her. For now, that's all I'll say....need to watch the episode again.

Last edited by SilverMoonDragonB (January 13, 2014 3:25 am)

the_dancing_woman · January 13, 2014 6:36 am

I'm still in shock in a way, whooaa, that was way too much to process!
I went to work extra early today, so I can leave really early too, and immediately rewatch the episode, in my eyes right now the best bloody piece of television I've seen in ages!
I was glued to the screen as to not miss a moment.
And I loved the unpredictability of it all, I mean Mary being what she turned out to be wasn't that much of a surprise, but her being the one to nearly kill of Sherlock - no matter how well calculated by her, it was a matter of seconds and sheer will to fight on Sherlock's part that he survived - was the very last thing I expected! Benedict's acting there and most of all being inside Sherlock's Mind Palace was so well done, I really feared for Sherlock's life even though I knew he wouldn't/ couldn't die!
I loved the moments between the Holmes brothers and the whole Christmas scene. I loved John being BAMF, Martin Freeman really excelled in playing out all those different emotions.
But I really need to rewatch that last scene on the airfield before Sherlock leaves, that was a bit too much going on there for me (I mean to emotionally cope with what happened there).
I also loved the moment when Sherlock explained to John how it was only logical that he would fall for a woman like 'Mary'.
And I am glad Magnussen died, he was a brilliant but deeply appalling baddy, not someone I would like to keep for another series.
I loved the ending, I've sort of been waiting for Moriarty to come up again in some way, since Moffat was so adamant that he was, of course, dead. If it really was him or just an elaborate ruse, we will see. I am just so glad it didn't end with Sherlock being shipped off to the East to die.
All in all I feel a lot better than after 'The Fall'.
Not sure yet what to think of Mary, part of me is really impressed with her (and also with Amanda's brilliant acting!) and with how things played out between Sherlock and Mary, and part of me still just wants both of the boys back in 221B where they belong.

besleybean · January 13, 2014 7:19 am

Ok. Just got here and I will have to go get ready for work at some point! So not reading anybody else's!

Preamble: can I get the unpleasant stuff out of the way 1st? I do think we have a thread of this nature.
None of this is directed at the Sherlock team by the way, as it's their show and they can do what the heck they like.
To be honest, it's mainly directed at twitter: I am angry(to borrow from John) about the way we were all wound up by those who previewed this episode. I actually felt physically ill, when I first settled to watch it.In future, I hope people keep their comments to themselves and I for one will not be taking any notice of them anyway.
1. I thought it was brilliant and probably goes straight to position number one on The List.(more of that later if I have time).
2. I never expected to laugh so much: howled with laughter all the way through the Janine scenes.
3. So glad I know The Canon: hope no fan girls were upset about Sherlock apparenty going to get engaged...and to a female! Which leads me to:
4. I'd had some spoilers, ' The Drugs Den' being one. So again, glad I knew the canonical reference! Which leads to:
5. Loved Wiggins, wonder if we'll see more of him. Which leads to:
6. Delighted we saw more of Daddy and Mummy Holmes. Which leads to:
7. The Other Brother. I have heard of this before, I know we have a thread here, so wonder if they will revist this. Now my system is going a bit awry, so some more random thoughts:

-Sherlock: clever way to get him out of a life sentence and bring him back to Baker Street: so loyal to and supportive of John and Mary and future child. God his love for John...
-John: poor sod. But then he did marry a female Sherlock! Good for him.
- Mary. Kind of irrelevant what I think of her, as she's John's wife. But: well done for surviving the series!
- Mycroft: don't push your bro too hard. You need him.
- Molly: I understand. But it's Sherlock and you shouldn't have hit him! Hope you find peace.
- Mrs H: I hope one day Sherlock will be nicer to you.
-CAM: you were very good, but you were horrible, glad you didn't survive the series.
And my(I think)final word goes appropriately to Moriarty:
When he 1st appreared in Sherlock's Mind Palce, I said to my husband(and sorry): look at him, even dead he'd better than the new villain...I do miss him!
So I howled laughing at the end...even tho I don't know if he is still alive or if we will see him again,.
It was SO good to see him.

Final thoughts: so hopefully we won't have to wait so long for the next series.

Oh my list:
1. His Last Vow
2.The Reichenbach Fall
3.The Great Game
4. The Sign of Three
5 The Empty Hearse
6. The Hounds of Baskerville
7. A Study in Pink
8. A Scandal in Belgravia
9. The Blind Banker.

Last edited by besleybean (January 13, 2014 7:22 am)

CarlPowers · January 13, 2014 7:47 am

I lost track of time in this episode (a good thing) - and thoroughly enjoyed
where it took me.    Although it was a rocky start for me,   really wanting no
more emotional candy and weddings and heartfelt musings-   so to see not just
the possible drug angle of Sherlock,   but to see Janine and the 'girlfriend'
scenario?   I felt almost physically sick. no no no no I thought. Until
I thought of the Canon stories, and that he's been known to go to these
lengths to get after a goal.    Of course, don't want to actually see it.

But then my 'sickness' was slowly replaced by the general creepiness factor
of Magnussen, and the frenetic dreamlike state of this episode
grabbed hold of me.   Maybe it was the morphine? but it became
pretty brilliant.    The Molly scenes, the Moriarty in straight-jacket
scene, the Mary as assassin,   CAM's flicking and licking. I was
glad to be put off-balance.   The entire Christmas scene, the cigarettes,
the drugged Holmes family members, child Sherlock, Redbeard the dog,
Mycroft, CAM Mind Palace (and Sherlock's shooting of it), John's apparent
forgiveness of Mary, Moriarty after the credits rolled..   Wow.   I still feel queasy.

There's an 'east wind' coming, as John says at the end.   well done.

I want Mary and the baby GONE. Gone if not before the beginning of
Series 4, at least early on in the upcoming plotlines.

I'm glad Sherlock (even if undercover) will be back, quickly.
(If we can call 2 years 'quickly'.)

Loved the CAM Appledore set.

btw, Sherlock could definitely be a girl's name.    'Sherrinford' was
the 'possible' Mycroft elder brother in some old Sherlock spin-off story,
based on ACD's notes about what to name the character Sherlock. Oh, we'll see.

Mycroft and William Sherlock Scott Holmes- hmm.. (mike and billy holmes anyone?)

Criosdan · January 13, 2014 8:06 am

Oh my goodness! What a wonderful episode. I'm still a bit thunderstruck.

Mirthxx · January 13, 2014 8:28 am

CarlPowers wrote:
btw, Sherlock could definitely be a girl's name. 'Sherrinford' was
the 'possible' Mycroft elder brother in some old Sherlock spin-off story,
based on ACD's notes about what to name the character Sherlock. Oh, we'll see.

Mycroft and William Sherlock Scott Holmes- hmm.. (mike and billy holmes anyone?)

ooh, ooh. I just realised. We were in the Holmes house. Surely there is a picture somewhere of brother Three?? Some reference. May have to watch the mantlepiece a little more closely when I watch it for the second time tonight and see if I can see a pic of three little boys. Afterall, we know which one is Sherlock now.

....ah, unless all images were removed when he 'besmirched the family name'??

Mxx

Last edited by Mirthxx (January 13, 2014 8:28 am)

Hudders · January 13, 2014 8:28 am

Shazzykins wrote:
Hi Hudders,

Just want to point out that I have sat staring at your OH SO AMAZING hair ruffling gif for about 10 minutes now.

I thank you. (I drop to my knees and bow repeatedly) I'm not worthy ... I'm not worthy ...

You're welcome This man is just too perfect

So I tried to sleep last night - was not possible. (Now I'm sitting at work being very very tired)

I still cannot express my feelings about this episode.

I had great laughs (especially Christmas with family Holmes - lovely)
I did cry a lot (Mary "shooting" Sherlock)
and a lot of WTF? Moriarty? I still can't get it. It is so awesome and I want more... NOW.

How should I stand these feelings for probably two years?

zeratul · January 13, 2014 8:42 am

Well Sherlock threw that guy out of the window in an older episode, didn't he?

What was Mycrofts plan? What if Sherlock didn't shoot CAM? I didn't get it fully, can somebody help me?

I was also crying when Sherlock was shot and also about he should be sent away (I also did not fully get the plan of that).

I need to watch it again.

And I don't want to wait another two years! It is always quite cruel to finally have the new season coming, but knowing it will be even worse after it ended...

the_dancing_woman · January 13, 2014 8:46 am

On further reflection now I have to say that Sherlock's character moved me the most yesterday. I love Martin Freeman, and I love how plays out John's emotions, but my heart was completely with Sherlock yesterday!
He certainly has matured, he behaved like a proper hero several times throughout the episode (apart from the girlfriend/engagement thing, that was bad, but also canonical ).
I'm beginning to sort of worry about him and John. Sherlock's love for John was so obvious right before he got on that plane, I just don't know if there was enough coming back from John. I mean did he realise that by shooting CAM Sherlock saved Mary and John, their child, their future??
I just feel like John didn't appreciate that enough, repressed emotions and all, and then again, what can you say to each other in such a moment with several people looking on and stuck in another possible last goodbye. I probably would be way too overwhelmed to say the right things. I guess it all would really hit me after having properly processed all that just happened.
What are your thoughts?

Ozma · January 13, 2014 8:48 am

zeratul wrote:
Well Sherlock threw that guy out of the window in an older episode, didn't he?

What was Mycrofts plan? What if Sherlock didn't shoot CAM? I didn't get it fully, can somebody help me?

I was also crying when Sherlock was shot and also about he should be sent away (I also did not fully get the plan of that).

I need to watch it again.

And I don't want to wait another two years! It is always quite cruel to finally have the new season coming, but knowing it will be even worse after it ended...

well, if he didn't shoot CAM he would have stayed alive and would have been a continued threat to John as he has all the dirt on Mary (he is a media mogul and can print whatever information he wants).

Mycroft mentioned the suicide mission to Sherlock earlier on when they were at their parents' house, but said he wanted him to stay as he was more useful to him here (the real reason though being that Sherlock would have died and Mycroft didn't want that). So then when Sherlock kills CAM, Mycroft sends him away on that mission (in my head still planning to save him, like he did before TEH) in order to avoid him being put in jail for life or worse.

kazza474 · January 13, 2014 9:22 am

Well it's been a while since I posted any thoughts on this show & you ask for my initial reaction huh?

OK here goes: "Finally, an episode worthy of being linked to the first 2 series, took them long enough. But alas it was spoiled by the ending really, rather obvious but very much in keeping with the first 2 episodes' "theme" I guess. Shouldn't have expected anything else really.
CAM is my favourite canon villain (yes much more than Moriarty) , twas a shame the end of our villain didn't follow the canon one but in this day & age I doubt it would be deemed appropriate or 'useful to the needs of the writers' but nevertheless the story was more coherent than the other 2.
It was good to see they didn't try to recreate anything from past episodes in this one, as attempts to do so in the first 2 of this series were woeful at best (some I am sure many people have even missed) however the over emphasis of the "mind palace" remained in this episode, but then the little fans all think they all have one these days so what the heck, let's pop it in to fill up time again!

Overall, an above average episode and perhaps I will rate it higher on further reflection but for now my distaste for Ep 1&2 could be clouding my judgement.
Out of any of the Series 3 shows, this one MIGHT scrape in for a few nominations of awards but I wouldn't be surprised if the only ones they win are the fan based ones & that will depend on what else comes out between now & whenever those awards are judged I guess.

I live in hope that Moffat's influence will take a back seat & series 4 gets back to the original concept for the whole of the series.

Well you did ask didn't you?

Wholocked · January 13, 2014 9:30 am

Kazza, you're welcome to post your thoughts and feelings about the show, as ever; however, I would ask that you refrain from your habit of using deliberately inflammatory language. If you no longer enjoy the show, that's fine. Please avoid belittling those of us who still enjoy it.

SusiGo · January 13, 2014 9:57 am

I fully agree with that, Wholocked.

kazza474 · January 13, 2014 9:58 am

I'm sorry? What in the world are you on about?

zeratul · January 13, 2014 10:02 am

Ozma wrote:
zeratul wrote:
Well Sherlock threw that guy out of the window in an older episode, didn't he?

What was Mycrofts plan? What if Sherlock didn't shoot CAM? I didn't get it fully, can somebody help me?

I was also crying when Sherlock was shot and also about he should be sent away (I also did not fully get the plan of that).

I need to watch it again.

And I don't want to wait another two years! It is always quite cruel to finally have the new season coming, but knowing it will be even worse after it ended...
well, if he didn't shoot CAM he would have stayed alive and would have been a continued threat to John as he has all the dirt on Mary (he is a media mogul and can print whatever information he wants).

Mycroft mentioned the suicide mission to Sherlock earlier on when they were at their parents' house, but said he wanted him to stay as he was more useful to him here (the real reason though being that Sherlock would have died and Mycroft didn't want that). So then when Sherlock kills CAM, Mycroft sends him away on that mission (in my head still planning to save him, like he did before TEH) in order to avoid him being put in jail for life or worse.

Yes but what was Mycroft going to do with CAM?

Wholocked · January 13, 2014 10:03 am

Nothing. He believed that CAM was untouchable due to the knowledge he was holding over people's heads. He was trying to extract Sherlock and John and protect CAM.

zeratul · January 13, 2014 10:27 am

Hm so Mycroft wanted John and Sherlock to move away so that they won't hurt CAM?

Wholocked · January 13, 2014 10:29 am

That was my read on it yes

Ozma · January 13, 2014 10:30 am

Yes. Sherlock and John were the 'criminals' in that situation.

Which made me question - why did Sherlock bring John along, since that made him an accomplice? Why didn't he go alone - bringing his gun?