BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Mary

Ozma · January 13, 2014 1:45 am

Can we have a look at a couple of things:

-Mary shoots Sherlock. Ok, not fatally (though why couldn't she shoot him in the leg or something?) but please let's notice that Sherlock DOES FLATLINE and only comes to because he fights to not cause suffering to John. So a pretty serious injury which required fecking surgery.

-Sherlock said she saved his life. Really?? When she goes to the hospital and John tells her he's pulled through surgery, she makes a face like 'Oh shit' because now she's obviously scared Sherlock will tell John. She was expecting him to die.
Then there is a nice little scene in which she threatens Sherlock to make sure he doesn't tell John - in that scene I was more scared of her that I was of Magnussen for the entire episode

- then, when Sherlock gets her into the fake building, she is STILL threatening to kill him ('How badly do you want to find out?' 'Understand there is NOTHING I wouldn't do to stop John from leaving me - or something along these lines)

But yet, YET, Sherlock still fights her case, John still forgives her even though he was right there when she confessed and threatened Sherlock again, and Sherlock even still bloody trusts her with John when he is about to leave.

How is this even ok?

Last edited by Ozma (January 13, 2014 1:46 am)

Wholocked · January 13, 2014 2:36 am

Because she was reacting out of fear, and he disarmed her fear. She is therefore no longer a threat to him. He knew John well enough to know that whatever Mary's secret was, John would be capable of forgiving her (as long as she didn't kill Sherlock).

She was terrified that John would find out about her and she would lose him. Then John did find out, she didn't lose him ergo fear disarmed.

lil · January 13, 2014 2:37 am

Burn the witch!

No excuses.

LoveBug54 · January 13, 2014 3:30 am

I really, really don't like how they are setting up Mary to become part of The Firm. Cuz now that they've shown she's a badass, they can justify it. No. Just no.

sj4iy · January 13, 2014 4:05 am

Sorry, I still like her. And I felt she had no choice. Just as I felt that Sherlock had no choice but to kill Magnussen.

ChrisHale · January 13, 2014 4:31 am

Kudos to the writers for acknowledging how completely far-fetched it is that Mary happens to be a secret agent/ex-assassin. They didn't let us use it as a criticism; they addressed it so well I'm actually half taken in.

the_dancing_woman · January 13, 2014 6:53 am

Wholocked wrote:
Because she was reacting out of fear, and he disarmed her fear. She is therefore no longer a threat to him. He knew John well enough to know that whatever Mary's secret was, John would be capable of forgiving her (as long as she didn't kill Sherlock).

She was terrified that John would find out about her and she would lose him. Then John did find out, she didn't lose him ergo fear disarmed.

Well said and, yes, brilliantly handled by Sherlock when he dismantled her secret in front of John.
Still he barely survived that shot, not something that is easy to forget for me...

When it comes to Mary, I don't know what to think, I sort of really have come to like her, and I love her being a strong woman and being as badass as she is. I also loved the irony of John thinking he found domestic bliss with a normal and loving woman, only to find out he married a former secret agent who is prone to a certain ruthlessness and a lot like Sherlock in fact! There is a certain pattern to be found in the people John falls for.
Right now I am just not so fond of them having a child in a way. How is that going to work out? It just doesn't really fit into the storyline. I am certainly intrigued to see how Mofftiss are going to handle this in the future. John has to be free to follow Sherlock into his adventures and I just can't see Mary as a stay-at-home mum with all that we know about her now (Mrs. Hudson as a babysitter, Mycroft?? *lol*)
And, honestly, part of me misses having the boys back together in 221B, so I really don't know right now.

besleybean · January 13, 2014 7:26 am

Certainly for me, the most interesting potential storyline at the mo.
One thing: I don't think John and Mary's flat is big enough for a baby!

Ozma · January 13, 2014 8:32 am

yes, she was scared and everything, but ultimately she is a selfish person who is ONLY interested in what's good for her - unlike Sherlock who couldn't have sacrificed himself in more ways in this episode.
I don't think the fact that you are scared of losing someone you love can justify you being willing to kill anyone - literally anyone - with little regret. Like Sherlock said, she should have come to him for help; if she really cared about him too, shouldn't she have considered options before just going, oh sod this! I'll just shoot everyone!

This is the hardest thing to swallow for me.

the_dancing_woman · January 13, 2014 8:56 am

Ozma wrote:
yes, she was scared and everything, but ultimately she is a selfish person who is ONLY interested in what's good for her - unlike Sherlock who couldn't have sacrificed himself in more ways in this episode.
I don't think the fact that you are scared of losing someone you love can justify you being willing to kill anyone - literally anyone - with little regret. Like Sherlock said, she should have come to him for help; if she really cared about him too, shouldn't she have considered options before just going, oh sod this! I'll just shoot everyone!

This is the hardest thing to swallow for me.

I'm still processing, but I am also about to get more than a bit angry with Mary. The person she seems to be looking out for the most is herself, yes, that's right in a way! I also think there is no justification for shooting Sherlock, she didn't just incapacitate him, he very nearly lost his life! To me she really is the most controversial character on the show so far, I just can't seem to rightly place how I feel about her (and then again compliments to Amanda for playing it out so brilliantly)

MissMe? · January 13, 2014 9:29 am

I don't want to keep Mary around for season 4, I really don't. The basis of the show is the friendship between John and Sherlock and if Mary & baby stay around, John's focus will HAVE to be on his family. I just don't see how his relationship with Sherlock would not suffer. It already bothered me when we found out in the beginning how they haven't seen each other in a month. This will certainly only get worse once the baby is around.
So, as much as I think John deserves a family and happiness, this is not the show I want to watch. Now that Mary is pretty far along in her pregnancy the only way out I see is her dying in childbirth. Pretty cruel if you ask me. I also wonder why the writers added the whole pregnancy situation. No good can come of it.
I'm torn about Mary. On the one hand I understand why she did what she did, but then again she'll always be the woman who shot Sherlock. Who then almost died - no wait, for a few seconds he DID die. So yeah, can't really get past that. Mary needs to go.

Wholocked · January 13, 2014 9:37 am

Well, Swanpride has pointed out in another thread that, in canon, John Watson did spend quite some time distanced from Baker Street during his marriage, and Holmes went on a number of cases without him.

MissMe? · January 13, 2014 9:41 am

In canon Mary also eventually dies and Watson moves back to Baker Street. For now I'm firmly Team Johnlock (in a purely innocent sense)

Ozma · January 13, 2014 10:39 am

MissMe? wrote:
I don't want to keep Mary around for season 4, I really don't. The basis of the show is the friendship between John and Sherlock and if Mary & baby stay around, John's focus will HAVE to be on his family. I just don't see how his relationship with Sherlock would not suffer. It already bothered me when we found out in the beginning how they haven't seen each other in a month. This will certainly only get worse once the baby is around.
So, as much as I think John deserves a family and happiness, this is not the show I want to watch. Now that Mary is pretty far along in her pregnancy the only way out I see is her dying in childbirth. Pretty cruel if you ask me. I also wonder why the writers added the whole pregnancy situation. No good can come of it.
I'm torn about Mary. On the one hand I understand why she did what she did, but then again she'll always be the woman who shot Sherlock. Who then almost died - no wait, for a few seconds he DID die. So yeah, can't really get past that. Mary needs to go.

I agree with you.

I just hope to God that they have a wider plan, and that they did keep her alive in this episode because they intend to do something with her later. As I also hope there is a meaning for her pregnancy, rather than it just because something to (initially) awww about (not that I will, marriage and cute babies are not what I watch Sherlock for)

I just can't work out what this plan might be.

Mattlocked · January 13, 2014 10:48 am

Ozma wrote:
As I also hope there is a meaning for her pregnancy, rather than it just because something to (initially) awww about (not that I will, marriage and cute babies are not what I watch Sherlock for)

Agree.

siya · January 13, 2014 10:51 am

MissMe? wrote:
I don't want to keep Mary around for season 4, I really don't. The basis of the show is the friendship between John and Sherlock and if Mary & baby stay around, John's focus will HAVE to be on his family. I just don't see how his relationship with Sherlock would not suffer. It already bothered me when we found out in the beginning how they haven't seen each other in a month. This will certainly only get worse once the baby is around.
So, as much as I think John deserves a family and happiness, this is not the show I want to watch. Now that Mary is pretty far along in her pregnancy the only way out I see is her dying in childbirth. Pretty cruel if you ask me. I also wonder why the writers added the whole pregnancy situation. No good can come of it.
I'm torn about Mary. On the one hand I understand why she did what she did, but then again she'll always be the woman who shot Sherlock. Who then almost died - no wait, for a few seconds he DID die. So yeah, can't really get past that. Mary needs to go.

i do agree with this

Marva · January 13, 2014 11:04 am

I agree with most of you, I am really pissed of Mary right now, though I really liked the twist that she is in a fact a villain and that she shot Sherlock (no, don't getme wrong here,I only like it for the plot). What I don't like is that John forgave her so fast and at all and that she seems to stick around longer. As has been said before: this is about John & Sherlock's friendship and not about these two + Mary + Baby (+ dog or whatever they come up with next). I really hope that she's going to leave soon and I think there are strong reasons to assume that she will.

Hera · January 13, 2014 11:13 am

You know, I can forgive Mary for lying all the time, I can even forgive her for murdering faceless strangers. But I cannot forgive her for shooting Sherlock. She almost killed him. I can't see the triangle working anymore, not for long anyway.

Don't ge me wrong. I actually like Mary. Even now I like her as a character and I liked the twist. I even liked that John forgave her. It was very well done. I can see why Sherlock forgives her. But I think now they've got to get rid of her - Sorry, Amanda! - before everything becomes ... too abstruse. But that's just me.

Last edited by Hera (January 13, 2014 11:21 am)

anjaH_alias · January 13, 2014 11:21 am

sj4iy wrote:
Sorry, I still like her. And I felt she had no choice. Just as I felt that Sherlock had no choice but to kill Magnussen.

Quite so.

silverblaze · January 13, 2014 11:25 am

But the whole point was that it would have been MUCH better, logically, to kill both Sherlock and Magnussen. Instead she saved his life and his reputation.

I like her. And I like what she brings to the relationship. It'll keep the bromance interesting.