BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Reunion

Ozma · January 8, 2014 1:05 pm

Just after John actually realises that it's not the waiter talking to him but Sherlock...and after those beautiful seconds of amazing brilliant acting by Martin, where he just stares at him... John then puts his fist down on the table.

Do you think Sherlock...feared for his life, at that moment? Like, do you think he was actually scared?

gently69 · January 8, 2014 1:15 pm

Not for his life... but he knew how explosive John can be...
"Punch me in the face"... ?

Last edited by gently69 (January 8, 2014 1:16 pm)

sherlockskitty · January 12, 2014 5:15 am

I think Sherlock knew that John wasn't gonna easily forgive him for keeping him in the dark, for two whole years. But I don't think he expected that John would attack him. None of us did. THAT was a surprise, for me. (but I loved it cos it was different than it was, in the canon)

sj4iy · January 12, 2014 6:59 am

sherlockskitty wrote:
I think Sherlock knew that John wasn't gonna easily forgive him for keeping him in the dark, for two whole years. But I don't think he expected that John would attack him. None of us did. THAT was a surprise, for me. (but I loved it cos it was different than it was, in the canon)

Actually, I think quite the opposite. I think he grossy underestimated just how easy it would be to 'waltz' back into John's life as evidenced by:

1. Making a joke out of it by dressing up as the waiter to 'surprise' him
2. His comment to Mycroft that he could 'jump out of a cake'
3. Telling Mycroft that John had no life without him
4. Sherlock not actually, sincerely apologizing for what he did until after John was nearly killed

He really didn't think it would be hard to come back in and pick up his life just the way he had left it, and it took him by complete shock to find that he wouldn't be able to do that as easily as he had imagined. I COMPLETELY imagined John would attack him...it just fits the personalities of both of the characters.

Last edited by sj4iy (January 12, 2014 7:01 am)

TeeJay · January 12, 2014 7:41 am

What still amazes me is the nuances of TEH, because when you watch very closely, you can see that Sherlock expects John to recognize him from his voice right away, which John doesn't. Sherlock comes up behind him, makes the champagne suggestions, and then John orders one. Watch Sherlock at that moment. He is clearly pissed that John didn't realize who he was talking to, and when he says, "Certainly endeavouring to, Sir," all trace of the French accent is gone. That was very brilliantly played.

SolarSystem · January 12, 2014 8:51 am

I agree that Sherlock completely underestimated how difficult it would be to come back into John's life. He obviously thought that John hadn't had a life for those two years and was just waiting for Sherlock to appear again.
I don't think that Sherlock really feared for his life in the restaurant, but just look at his face during that scene... it shifts from insecurity to surprise to something like helplessness... in my opinion he doesn't really know what he's doing anymore at one point, just because he didn't expect John to react like that. And well, he probably didn't really know what he was doing from the very beginning. If he would have been able to think this through in a less Sherlockian way beforehand, he wouldn't even have turned up there.

TeeJay · January 12, 2014 9:01 am

I think the fact that Sherlock is both completely unaware just how difficult it would be for John to accept him back, and that he's completely helpless when John gets angry at him are very in character for Sherlock. It has been said that he has Asperger's, and he's just not good with reading emotions and reacting to them.

To Sherlock, most things are dealt with rationally. To Sherlock, John would be happy to see him because he's missed him and hasn't seen him for two years. He can't really fathom the amount of hurt it has caused John that it appeared as if he'd died, and that John had to deal all this time with the devastating reality that he would never see Sherlock again.

To me, it made perfect sense that John would attack him, and if I had written my own reunion fanfic, I think I would have had John punch Sherlock in the face as well.

miriel68 · January 12, 2014 1:23 pm

I was expecting something like this, especially after SiB scene of fight. However, I had to watch the episode twice to observe really well Sherlock's emotions in this scene (the first time I was far much too thrilled and nervous) and it is quite obvious that he is very nervous from the beginning and that's why he tries to cover it with the ill-advised idea of masquerading himself as a waiter. His face when John finally looks at him at recognizes him is also very telling. He still tries to get past the awkward moment by pretending it is not such a huge thing and of course his joke about mustaches is another disastrous attempt to lighten the atmosphere is completely mistaken (but not uncommon reaction in a very tense situation)

silverblaze · January 12, 2014 4:00 pm

I actually found Mary's reaction the most believable. I think I would react in the same way, first shock and then the giggles about the absurdity of it.

KeepersPrice · January 12, 2014 8:09 pm

miriel68 wrote:
I was expecting something like this, especially after SiB scene of fight. However, I had to watch the episode twice to observe really well Sherlock's emotions in this scene (the first time I was far much too thrilled and nervous) and it is quite obvious that he is very nervous from the beginning and that's why he tries to cover it with the ill-advised idea of masquerading himself as a waiter. His face when John finally looks at him at recognizes him is also very telling. He still tries to get past the awkward moment by pretending it is not such a huge thing and of course his joke about mustaches is another disastrous attempt to lighten the atmosphere is completely mistaken (but not uncommon reaction in a very tense situation)

Perfect 'read' on the situation as usual, miriel! I concur completely. I also had to watch a couple of times to really catch that Sherlock was quite nervous and tried the silly waiter surprise routine and the ill timed jokes about the mustache as a way to cover his nerves. Note how his voice rises to a high pitched school boy's voice when he says, "Are you really going to keep that?". Nervous giggle and all. Poor man.

miriel68 · January 13, 2014 8:45 pm

Yes, nervous giggle, high pitched voice and then immediately after this his face becomes all nervous and miserable again (and did you notice how he is wriggling his hands, as well?). Poor Sherlock, indeed,but brave, brave, bravissomo Benedict Cumberbatch.

SolarSystem · January 14, 2014 5:29 am

And at one point he even gives a glance full of nervousness and insecurity in Mary's direction, just for a tiny second. One really has to look closely to discover all the emotions that are going on in this scene.
And right, miriel, Benedict is doing this so brilliantly - and Martin isn't bad, either (and that's such an understatement!).

Wholocked · January 14, 2014 5:43 am

I don't think he is nervous initially. I think he becomes nervous when John doesn't immediately react with warm welcome. John is, again, unpredictable and it throws him. I think he just went down the waiter route because he thought it was funny (which is actually what he says "In my defence, it was funny")

SolarSystem · January 14, 2014 5:59 am

I'm under the impression that he's getting nervous the moment he sees John sitting at the table for the very first time. At that moment Sherlock's expression changes and that's when he comes up with the idea to dress up as a waiter. I guess that before he actually saw John he really thought he'd just walk up to him and say "Hi, I'm back".

saturnR · January 16, 2014 3:01 am

I love the jump cuts where they never show John's fist actually making contact with Sherlock's face. They only show the aftermath

SusiGo · January 16, 2014 7:55 am

Tbh, when watching it for the first time I was quite confused and a bit disappointed. Why the hell are they turning this into a comedy? The second time I really got it and thought, well, this is so very human. Sherlock being not able to deal with John's reaction and going for a laugh out of sheer helplessness. Martin is getting much praise for this but I think the real challenge is to Benedict because he was to express all those conflicting feelings in split seconds.

miriel68 · January 16, 2014 8:50 am

Agree, Susi. I think a lot of people felt offended or disappointed for what they took as Sherlock lack of sensitivity, especially in light of what he said to Mycroft earlier. And let's be honest: we were probably too tense the first time we watched the episode to be able to spot everything. Also, while Watson's emotions (beautifully played by MF) are quite explicitly shown, Sherlock's feelings are signaled very subtly and it takes a very observant viewer to notice all the "symptoms" and interpret them correctly. O=13pxnce again I cannot praise enough BC who in this scene, IMO, upstaged even MF.

tonnaree · January 16, 2014 2:16 pm

SusiGo wrote:
Tbh, when watching it for the first time I was quite confused and a bit disappointed. Why the hell are they turning this into a comedy? The second time I really got it and thought, well, this is so very human. Sherlock being not able to deal with John's reaction and going for a laugh out of sheer helplessness. Martin is getting much praise for this but I think the real challenge is to Benedict because he was to express all those conflicting feelings in split seconds.

YES! Sherlock was scared witless at that moment. I've always used humour as a defense tactic myself so I totally identified with him there.

SherlocklivesinOH · January 20, 2014 4:49 am

Did Mary recognize Sherlock a split second before John did?

sj4iy · January 20, 2014 4:59 am

SherlocklivesinOH wrote:
Did Mary recognize Sherlock a split second before John did?

No, she simply thought he was a waiter who picked the wrong moment to interrupt them. John recognized him first and it wasn't until he got angry that she put 2 and 2 together.