BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Johnlock

Punch me in the face · January 6, 2014 6:34 pm

Yes, yes, Johnlock, I know! But here's the place to discuss Johnlock in TSOT without "polluting" all the other topics with our fantasies

Well, to be honest, I hadn't expected so much Johnlock feels in an episode focusing on John and Mary's wedding.

I won't discuss all the obvious things (but feel free to do so, hehe! ) such as Sherlock's speech wich almost sounds like an open love letter to John, or that epic, overwhelming hug which almost had me in tears.

To me, it almost feels like Sherlock is the one getting married to John, or even to John AND Mary as he has accepted her (and says at the end that he'll always be there for the two of them, well, three of them actually!). As a matter of fact, when the photographer says "just the bride and groom please", he doesn't even realise he shouldn't be on the photograph.

The things he says to John in his speech, "I'll never let you down", that actually sounds like the promises you make to your other half on your wedding's day. He could as well have said "I will love you and protect you until death do us apart", awww At the end he says "My last vow", it's an allusion to next episode, of course, but it reminds me again of wedding vows.

All that thing with that client when they're drunk (just after they played "Who am I?". Oh, by the way, John grabbing his knee... "I don't mind". Well, I certainly didn't mind either ). I can't help but think it was a kind of double meaning. I mean, she's there, saying things like:

* "we seemed to automatically connect" : isn't what happened for them in ASIP?? They decided to share a flat while the day they met! Remember Mycroft "Hm and since yesterday you've moved in with him and now you're solving crimes together. Are we to expect a happy announcement by the end of the week?" hehe

* "such interesting conversation, it was lovely" : John even smiles and glances at Sherlock at that point

* "I wish things had gone further": there, Sherlock suddenly takes off the arm which he had placed on the back of the sofa, just behind John's shoulder as if he was thinking just the same after that night of complicity --and years of friendship-- they've just shared, as if it had come to his mind, and that he was suddenly realising it was no good as John was about to get married, and so he shifts away from him

* "I don't know, this is special": that's exactly what their relationship is! Whatever we see in it, love or very strong friendship, it IS special.

Then I don't know but what did you think of that girl (the bridesmaid) telling him "I wish you weren't... whatever is you are" and that he replies "I know". I know I'm seeing this with my Johnlock glasses so I'm probably reading far too much into this, but actually, I don't see what she was implying. She barely knows him. I feel like she's in love with him but thinking "shit, he's in love with John, it's obvious, so he doesn't swing my way". Yeah, well...

And finally, that sad look on his face just after he's made that deduction about Mary's pregnancy like he's feeling that John is slipping between his fingers, going further and further away from him. He tells Mary and John to dance (while he LOVES dancing but has no one to dance with as even the bridesmaid is having fun with another guy). And then he realises everyone is moving on with their life except him and he he is lonely in a crowded place... awwww

So what are your Johnlock thoughts after this episode???

Marva · January 6, 2014 7:24 pm

This episode actually left me a bit puzzled regarding johnlock. I mean seriously, without my slash glasses on, it was as if Sherlock married John ( and maybe Mary). How is that possible? Where is the bromance? This didn't feel like bromance anymore, at least not from Sherlock's POV.

NotYourHousekeeperDear · January 6, 2014 7:45 pm

To me the most suggestive Johnlock quote was Mary's "Neither of us were his first you know".
That John Watson, what a tease, getting these brilliant, sociopathic men to fall for him, breaking through all their emotional barriers, and then moving on to someone else!

I agree with the comments above about the wedding seeming like it was of Sherlock and John (with Mary attached somehow) rather than just John and Mary. I remember at my wedding my Dad accidently toasted the wedding of myself and my sister forgetting the name of my groom. It was a bit like that!

Ozma · January 6, 2014 7:49 pm

I did feel like Sherlock was the center of the attention in the wedding (he really spoke a lot thoroughout - funny how the bride and groom weren't shown saying even one word) and yes he seemed to always put himself on the same level as Mary when he was speaking about John and the future.
When he says, 'I can speak for Mary as well when I say we will never let you down' - and by the way, I think we have another clue right there... one of them WILL let John down. And it won't be Sherlock...

tobeornot221b · January 6, 2014 8:03 pm

After their stag night.
John, feeling quite uncomfortable with Mrs Hudson talking about the relationship with her husband:

...in his attempt to escape her flow of speech he takes refuge in the one word he should have avoided:

Oh, John!

Mirthxx · January 6, 2014 8:14 pm

Punch me in the face wrote:
Yes, yes, Johnlock, I know! But here's the place to discuss Johnlock in TSOT without "polluting" all the other topics with our fantasies

* "we seemed to automatically connect" : isn't what happened for them in ASIP?? They decided to share a flat while the day they met! Remember Mycroft "Hm and since yesterday you've moved in with him and now you're solving crimes together. Are we to expect a happy announcement by the end of the week?" hehe

I did notice that when she said that, they seemed to realise Sherlock's arm was round Watson, he removed it, with a 'ahem, didn't realise I was doing that' switch to his body and Watson leant forward, changing his position as well once it was removed, like they were both making an effort to pretend his arm wasn't just 'there', like her words made them VERY self concious of each other. LOL. Especially as it's just as she says she had hoped for something more !!

....and Sherlocks' trying not to cry when she says it didn't go anywhere - sympathy or empathy?? LOL

Also, can you tell me what Watson says when just before Sherlock shakes him awake with the 'game is ...something' line. I just can't figure out what he mumbles??? Anyone else understand it?

Mxx

Last edited by Mirthxx (January 6, 2014 8:17 pm)

Sherlock Holmes · January 6, 2014 10:05 pm

Yeah, lots of great Johnlock moments in this episode...I think you guys have pretty much covered all of them actually.

Oh, and the bit at the end where they were like "we can't all dance together" and John and Mary go off to dance on their own. Haha. I felt like Sherlock really became aware of his isolation at that moment. It was pretty sad. I kind of want him to find someone. His character development has come on so much that he's almost ready for a relationship of sorts.

Ozma · January 6, 2014 11:13 pm

Sherlock Holmes wrote:
Yeah, lots of great Johnlock moments in this episode...I think you guys have pretty much covered all of them actually.

Oh, and the bit at the end where they were like "we can't all dance together" and John and Mary go off to dance on their own. Haha. I felt like Sherlock really became aware of his isolation at that moment. It was pretty sad. I kind of want him to find someone. His character development has come on so much that he's almost ready for a relationship of sorts.

God no please! Sherlock is Sherlock. No girlfriend/boyfriends - only John!

KeepersPrice · January 7, 2014 2:10 am

Ozma wrote:
God no please! Sherlock is Sherlock. No girlfriend/boyfriends - only John!

Here! Here! It must always be John and Sherlock. As Sherlock says in TEH, "The blood pumping through your veins - just the two of us...."

NotYourHousekeeperDear · January 7, 2014 4:49 am

I don't know... I wouldn't mind seeingJohn jealous of Sherlock for once- maybe if he had his equivalent of a Major Sholto character- a compassionate ex army doctor or something he got on particularly well with in the past. I'm sure it would drive John insane...

NotYourHousekeeperDear · January 7, 2014 5:27 am

Oooh yes. Feels so long ago now...

besleybean · January 7, 2014 6:37 am

I'm confused here.
Sherlock jealous of John?

silverblaze · January 7, 2014 2:07 pm

Marva wrote:
This episode actually left me a bit puzzled regarding johnlock. I mean seriously, without my slash glasses on, it was as if Sherlock married John ( and maybe Mary). How is that possible? Where is the bromance? This didn't feel like bromance anymore, at least not from Sherlock's POV.

Oh, but friendships can be just as deep and emotionally bonding as romantic relationships. And don't forget that Sherlock episodes have a huge 'off-screen story', that is implied. They're only showing the bits that are relevant to Sherlock, his arc and the mystery plot.

I'd like to believe that Moftiss have such a friendship IRL. They certainly seem to be good friends.

Criosdan · January 7, 2014 2:21 pm

besleybean wrote:
I'm confused here.
Sherlock jealous of John?

I guess Sherlock is jealous of Johns past.

Marva · January 7, 2014 2:42 pm

silverblaze wrote:
Marva wrote:
This episode actually left me a bit puzzled regarding johnlock. I mean seriously, without my slash glasses on, it was as if Sherlock married John ( and maybe Mary). How is that possible? Where is the bromance? This didn't feel like bromance anymore, at least not from Sherlock's POV.
Oh, but friendships can be just as deep and emotionally bonding as romantic relationships. And don't forget that Sherlock episodes have a huge 'off-screen story', that is implied. They're only showing the bits that are relevant to Sherlock, his arc and the mystery plot.

I'd like to believe that Moftiss have such a friendship IRL. They certainly seem to be good friends.

But you don't marry your friends. Plus, he exclusively bonds himself to John (and Mary, but I see Mary more like an extended version of John here).

I actually have some problems in defining what romance is exactly. I am sure it doesnt need to have a sexual component necessarily. My best guess is that romance is some kind of deep exclusive love. Unless platonic love. You can have many friends that you love equally. But the characteristic of romance is exclusiveness.

silverblaze · January 7, 2014 3:20 pm

I disagree, but I guess everyone has a different experience.

People can be in a romantic relationship and have many platonic friends a the same time. Similarly, people can have one or two deep platonic friendships and many more superficial 'normal' friendships at the same time. People can even have all three types of relationships at the same time. Or different kinds of relationships at different times in their lives. I don't see why that's impossible.

And they don't get married, do they?

Having said that, the sexual element in a real romance is such an important contribution to bonding that those relationships tend to always be deeper than platonic friendships. Unless it's casual sex. Mwah, relationships, difficult stuff.

besleybean · January 7, 2014 5:24 pm

Really?

QuiteExtraordinary · January 7, 2014 5:35 pm

Usually wedding scenes in films have the kiss between bride and groom in the centre (and then usually a camera panning to crying family members). This one was built around the hug between John and Sherlock (also including crying "family members"). I really appreciated that.

besleybean · January 7, 2014 5:49 pm

So did we all!

tobeornot221b · January 7, 2014 5:49 pm

The wedding imo provides an acceptable excuse for Sherlock and John to talk about and show their feelings for each other. Sherlock's best man speech matches John's soliloquy at Sherlock's grave.