BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Something I'm absolutely sure of

tobeornot221b · June 10, 2012 11:36 am

I told you that I'm going to trouble you with some observations.
Here you are:

Concerning the question of HOW Sherlock did it we haven't got much to be going on with at this point. That's why I'll try to stick to a kind of least common denominator, something I'm absolutely sure of:

During the rooftop scene preparations concerning Sherlock's imminent jump are ongoing.

(Yes, I'm also sure he DOES jump. No dummy, no dead Moriarty, no dream at all.)

I see two tasks for the writers/production team:
1. Prevent us – the TV audience - from noticing it.
2. Hold off John from this particular area.

Where to begin? Ok:

After Moriarty's suicide we see Sherlock on the edge of the roof sending down some kind of searching gaze:

It's as if he's thinking: "Everything goes according to plan; preparation state is ok so far, now I hope my timing with John will be right as well."

John.
Sherlock has ensured that John isn't around. He now expects him to return to the scene.
Which he does:

Notice: John's sitting on the right hand side in the back of the cab.

John arrives at Bart's, gets out on the left side of the cab.

Previously:
John, realizing that he has been duped by a hoax is getting absolutely horrified.
All he can think is getting back to Bart's as quickly as possible.

To me, from this moment on the script demands that John behaves quite strangely.
If I were in his situation I'd phone Sherlock on the spot to make sure he's fine.
John apparently doesn't.
Why?
The reason for this is obvious:
Another Pool style phone call - this time on Bart's roof?
Another "Mind if I get that?" - this time from Sherlock?
No, the writers don't want to repeat themselves and they don't want John to disturb the (fascinating, mesmerizing) Sherlock/Jim conversation.
(Well done!)

So, no phone call. Ok.

But – why does John make the cab stop about 50 metres away from Bart's entrance?
For someone being in a hell of a hurry like him this seems to be strange behaviour as well.

The reason for this is obvious.
Look at my photo of this site:

The whole fall preparation would be clear to John the moment the cab took him to the entrance which is just a few metres to the left.
That's why the cab stops behind the ambulance building which blocks the view on the area between the phone booth and the bus stop.

But there's more strange behaviour.
As to be seen, John is sitting on the right hand side of the cab.
He is not asleep.
He's looking out of the window.
Eyes wide open.
Approaching St. Bart's his view of the area has to be like this:

Ongoing preparations – involving people and equipment of a kind – must have attracted his attention. Ok – we know that John would SEE but not OBSERVE, but this…!

Let's maintain:
John doesn't phone Sherlock, doesn't let himself been taken to the entrance, neither sees nor observes.

Again, all this can only be for one reason:
To conceal ongoing crucial things in that very area from John and from us.

One little extra: The prescribed driving direction is marked by arrows on the road. The cab is expected to follow them, which means it has to drive around the ambulance building on its way back. But obviously it doesn't. It simply "disappears".
Apparently even the cab isn't allowed to enter this area.

At one point John comes dangerously close to the area in question.
Here:

It's the moment Sherlock says: "Turn around and walk back where you came from. Please do as I ask."
John – thankfully he doesn't look to his right – does as he is asked for and walks back to a point where he can't see anything revealing.
(Sherlock on the roof must have been sooo relieved!)
Maybe the visible paramedic's role was an additional safeguard in blocking John's sight or in distracting him?

As to the preparations:
My main suspect is – as I stated in another thread – the big grey guy with the black cap at the bench with his three-bag problem.

That's all I can say for now.

Irene Adler · June 10, 2012 11:42 am

Very interesting points, tobe... I have to rewatch and then comment, but there are some things I had never thinked of from this perspective. Nicely done

Molly Hooper · June 10, 2012 11:56 am

So, tobe, do you think that the taxidriver was in on it too?

tobeornot221b · June 10, 2012 12:01 pm

No, I don't think so. I consider this to be a simple director's trick.

kazza474 · June 10, 2012 12:20 pm

My thoughts on some points you raise:

tobeornot221b wrote:
Notice: John's sitting on the right hand side in the back of the cab.
John arrives at Bart's, gets out on the left side of the cab.
But – why does John make the cab stop about 50 metres away from Bart's entrance?
For someone being in a hell of a hurry like him this seems to be strange behaviour as well.

The cabbie pulled up in the only place parking was allowed, unless he drove right around & past the bus stop. The parking spaces would be the first place he came to; his passenger was impatient to get out so he stopped there. He couldn't stop on the corner directly in front of the entrance; the road is too narrow to allow other vehicles past, esp a bus for instance. Nor could he park in the bus stop area. Basically he was following the road rules.

The whole fall preparation would be clear to John the moment the cab took him to the entrance which is just a few metres to the left.
That's why the cab stops behind the ambulance building which blocks the view on the area between the phone booth and the bus stop.

What are you suggesting is there? Regardless of what it is, if it looked out of place or peculiar, that would draw a crowd of onlookers anyway. Remember many of the people on the street there would be 'regulars' to that area (unlike John) so anything out of the ordinary would draw anyone's attention.
Whatever was 'set up' had to be hidden or disguised to look 'normal'.

And of course to some degree, the scene would be set up the way the writers, etc needed it to be. That's the whole point of making the show, lol.

Sherli Bakerst · June 13, 2012 12:22 am

I love your own photos! For someone like me who's never been there, they really help clarify what the place looks like. (Well, duh; but I hope you know what I mean.) Thanks for posting them and for your comments, which I found very interesting.

Sentimental Pulse · June 13, 2012 1:15 am

Sherlock needs John to stay behind the little brick building so that when Sherlock jumps John will only see him fall and not land in back of truck that immediately drives off.

kazza474 · June 13, 2012 1:59 am

Sentimental Pulse wrote:
Sherlock needs John to stay behind the little brick building so that when Sherlock jumps John will only see him fall and not land in back of truck that immediately drives off.

There is no way Sherlock lands in a truck. Check out more theory threads on that one.

Sentimental Pulse · June 13, 2012 2:27 am

kazza474 wrote:
Sentimental Pulse wrote:
Sherlock needs John to stay behind the little brick building so that when Sherlock jumps John will only see him fall and not land in back of truck that immediately drives off.
There is no way Sherlock lands in a truck. Check out more theory threads on that one.

I shall do that, thank you

Tantalus · June 13, 2012 3:49 am

Thanks, tobe, for taking so much time to consider these matters. Keep going with it, and share your results.

I've thought about saying this for awhile, but haven't, because I think it distracts from our getting at "what really happened". But, I'm gonna say it anyway, 'cause it's bugging me.

Firstly, I agree with tobe that Sherlock DID jump. I have zero doubts about that, though I don't know how he survived (my best guess is some sort of air-bag put in place by someone on the street, then quickly deflated/moved/thrown in the back of the garbage truck or something).

But...here's what has been bothering me. In the canon, Holmes survives the Reichenbach Falls how? BECAUSE HE WAS NEVER IN THE FALLS... He made people believe he had gone over with Moriarty, but he actually scampers up a cliff face and disappears over the hills into Switzerland (oh, wait, that was "Sound of Music").

Would Moftiss make this great of a departure from the original story? Guess so, 'cause I do still believe Sherlock jumped. It does bother me though.

kazza474 · June 13, 2012 3:53 am

Tantalus wrote:
But...here's what has been bothering me. In the canon, Holmes survives the Reichenbach Falls how? BECAUSE HE WAS NEVER IN THE FALLS... He made people believe he had gone over with Moriarty, but he actually scampers up a cliff face and disappears over the hills into Switzerland (oh, wait, that was "Sound of Music").

Would Moftiss make this great of a departure from the original story? Guess so, 'cause I do still believe Sherlock jumped. It does bother me though.

I think so; the fact that he was 'never in the falls' can be countered with the fact that he WAS AT THE FALLS. The area is called 'The Reichenbach Falls'.
Geez, I hope he doesn't marry an ex-nun ........

Tantalus · June 13, 2012 4:00 am

kazza474 wrote:
Geez, I hope he doesn't marry an ex-nun ........

Oh, my, I would marry an ex-nun if she was anything like Julie Andrews...

tobeornot221b · June 13, 2012 4:34 am

Tantalus wrote:
Thanks, tobe, for taking so much time to consider these matters. Keep going with it, and share your results.

I've thought about saying this for awhile, but haven't, because I think it distracts from our getting at "what really happened". But, I'm gonna say it anyway, 'cause it's bugging me.

Firstly, I agree with tobe that Sherlock DID jump. I have zero doubts about that, though I don't know how he survived (my best guess is some sort of air-bag put in place by someone on the street, then quickly deflated/moved/thrown in the back of the garbage truck or something).

But...here's what has been bothering me. In the canon, Holmes survives the Reichenbach Falls how? BECAUSE HE WAS NEVER IN THE FALLS... He made people believe he had gone over with Moriarty, but he actually scampers up a cliff face and disappears over the hills into Switzerland (oh, wait, that was "Sound of Music").

Would Moftiss make this great of a departure from the original story? Guess so, 'cause I do still believe Sherlock jumped. It does bother me though.

Thanks Tantalus - it was great fun to do this and also quite a challenge. (Oh, why do I have to have such complicated thoughts on this matter, thoughts that I can hardly express properly even in German? )

In comparison to the canon I think Moffat has a different approach to the fall. In an interview I listened to/read recently he said that they wanted Sherlock "to die in John's arms", that is make sure John is convinced that Sherlock is doubtlessly dead.
That alone would be different from ACD whose Watson isn't around during Holmes' supposed fall/death.
Wonder how the WRITERS will find their way out of this Fall!

Last edited by tobeornot221b (June 13, 2012 5:53 pm)

Tantalus · June 15, 2012 4:38 am

And another thing: Is anyone else bothered by the fact that so many people in medical "garb" appear so quickly on the scene? Don't we have to assume that these people are all "in" on the real story? Unless they are all members of the homeless network, wouldn't it be unrealistic to expect so many people to keep their mouths shut about what really happened?

Sentimental Pulse · June 15, 2012 7:56 pm

Tantalus wrote:
And another thing: Is anyone else bothered by the fact that so many people in medical "garb" appear so quickly on the scene? Don't we have to assume that these people are all "in" on the real story? Unless they are all members of the homeless network, wouldn't it be unrealistic to expect so many people to keep their mouths shut about what really happened?

Yes that occurred to me too. If Sherlock jumped into a net being held by a bunch of people scramblng out of the truck those same people could be the fake medical staff. But the more people who were in on this plot the less plausible it would be to keep this covered up or make work. Plus Sherlock is not a guy to round up a bunch of conspirators he would have to trust and whose abilities he would need to rely on. That is totally out of his character. Admitting to Molly he needed her help nearly killed him. And i doubt her role was to plan this operation at the hospital. Would he trust her for that?

The multi conspirator issue with Moriarty's three perfect crimes gives me heartburn as well. To have Moriarty saying:" there is no computer code, DOOFUS, I just magically found a bunch of perfect operatives who were able to pull off three unprecedented capers at the same time without fail." Sure Jim that seems a whole lot more plausible, not. Solutions relying on brilliant unknown unnamed conspirators trouble me as really not playing fair with audience. It is more likely in Sherlock's case that someone (Mycroft, Sherlock himself) somehow tipped off the legitimate medical staff that he was jumping right before he jumped. So they arrived onto the scene quickly.

Davina · June 15, 2012 9:04 pm

Maybe the medics are all Mycroft's people. They would keep quiet wouldn't they.

tobeornot221b · June 15, 2012 9:09 pm

Davina wrote:
Maybe the medics are all Mycroft's people. They would keep quiet wouldn't they.

Keep quiet? Only if they were from the Diogenes Club.
Otherwise they would spy on each other for money.

Davina · June 15, 2012 9:36 pm

But if they were paid enough? Maybe? Official Secrets Act and all that.

Irene Adler · June 15, 2012 10:00 pm

I'm sure Mycroft has something to do with the fake suicide, so I think that is quite probable.

kazza474 · June 15, 2012 10:03 pm

Tantalus wrote:
And another thing: Is anyone else bothered by the fact that so many people in medical "garb" appear so quickly on the scene? Don't we have to assume that these people are all "in" on the real story? Unless they are all members of the homeless network, wouldn't it be unrealistic to expect so many people to keep their mouths shut about what really happened?

Certainly there are a few & yes they would be the Homeless Network people. Sherlock puts a lot of faith in them, but then that is the sort of relationship he has with the Network people.

Sentimental Pulse wrote:
The multi conspirator issue with Moriarty's three perfect crimes gives me heartburn as well. To have Moriarty saying:" there is no computer code, DOOFUS, I just magically found a bunch of perfect operatives who were able to pull off three unprecedented capers at the same time without fail." Sure Jim that seems a whole lot more plausible, not. Solutions relying on brilliant unknown unnamed conspirators trouble me as really not playing fair with audience. It is more likely in Sherlock's case that someone (Mycroft, Sherlock himself) somehow tipped off the legitimate medical staff that he was jumping right before he jumped. So they arrived onto the scene quickly.

Three sites for crimes - three people who Moriarty is blackmailing to compromise security. They don't need to be conspirators. He would have used threats similar to the ones he used on the jury later on. Simple & effective solution & far less of a risk of anyone going to the police.
They weren't on Moriarty's side; they were his victims.

I think people have trouble 'buying' the concept of the Homeless Network. If the idea had come directly, as is , from the canon no-one would question it.
But because this show is set in the cynical world we live in today, people don't trust the Homeless Network. People cannot understand that there could be a trusting friendship between Sherlock & the Network people. And yet, it has been my experience to find these types of people to be more pure, more honest & more reliable than many other 'traditionally housed' people.