Sherlock Holmes wrote:

Swanpride wrote:

Sure, Sherlock is well written, and no doubt that this is the reason for the success. But the question is what kind of people watch the show. And I somehow doubt that there are a lot of people, who does not pay attention to TV schedules and information about shows would see that it on again and think "oh, right, the show I watched two years ago, I really wanted to know how he survived" or "oh, that's the show everyone is talking about, perhaps I give it a shot now". That's like seeing that there is a 9-parter in TV and deciding to watch the seventh episode. Nearly nobody does that.

Are you trying to say there's 9.2 million people in the Sherlock fandom? Because...that's ridiculous. Sorry. Majority of the viewers on New Year's Day would have been normal non-fandom viewers.

That´s what I thought before. I was just looking: This forum here has like 1800 members. How many do you think are still active here? Maybe 5%? But, yes, even I feel as if "everybody" is involved, but of course it´s not. I am the only person I know personally who is involved into a fandom, but I know serveral people who liked Sherlock very much.

Last edited by anjaH_alias (January 4, 2014 11:08 am)

Well, I'm a fan, only active on this forum, not really read much fanfiction and I can't say I spotted many in-jokes. Maybe the first two theories, there's gags about shipping (though honestly, Morlock?), but that's about it for me. Just knowing Reichenbach would provide enough context to enjoy the episode, including the jokes about the different theories. 

My personal opinion is very simple.  If TEH was the first episode of Sherlock you ever watched you're kinda doing it wrong.

I have on occasion jumped into a series a little late, but it has always made me go seek out the episodes I missed.

I wondered about that. But when I watched it the second time I wondered if we saw them because we recognised them. The episode does seem to run on it's own steam. I guess the major one I would be worried casual viewers wouldn't understand is the Empty Hearse club...I mean that's basically the fandom and casual viewers may not get why such a group has been included in the episode.

But I guess that's for Hartswood to worry about!

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

My point is though, even if you HAVE seen every single other episode of Sherlock but aren't part of the fandom...it's too much.

Not really, I've seen every single episode of Sherlock and don't read tumblr, fanfic or spoilers and only signed-up for this forum and I still enjoyed TEH without feeling it was too much.  Maybe some of the references like the parents being Ben's parents went over my head the first time around but I still enjoyed the episode for the humour and action.  I think my main discomfort initially was with how the characters had changed.  Mycroft came across as much smarter than he usually is but that wouldn't bother a total newbie watcher who doesn't know what the characters were like before.

besleybean wrote:

I think he's always been that smart, we're just seeing more of it!

Well, back in ASiB, Mycroft said it would take Sherlock Holmes himself to fool him and we kept seeing Mycroft ask Sherlock to solve cases for him throughout the series so I always got the impression that Sherlock was smarter than Mycroft yet Mycroft is now referred to as the smart one.  But maybe it's closer to canon.

Commonwealth wrote:

besleybean wrote:

I think he's always been that smart, we're just seeing more of it!

Well, back in ASiB, Mycroft said it would take Sherlock Holmes himself to fool him and we kept seeing Mycroft ask Sherlock to solve cases for him throughout the series so I always got the impression that Sherlock was smarter than Mycroft yet Mycroft is now referred to as the smart one.  But maybe it's closer to canon.

In the ACD stories it's stated plainly that Mycroft is smarter but despises legwork.

As ever I was a bit late into this discussion, so sorry if yiou've already covered this!.
But it did occur to me that one reference may slightly puzzle Sherlock newbies amd that's The Mind Palace.

NiTeLight wrote:

I enjoy references. It's fun to pick them out and I squeal every time I see a cinematic tip of the hat. It's wonderful that Moffit and Gatiss pay so much attention to their fans, and I love that they included nods to various theories, fan desires (kiss with Molly, almost kiss with Moriarty), and the original stories... but it seems that almost every scene had (or revolved around) a nod to one thing or another. It got to the point where it was laughable (as in ludicrous) and I thought it was too much, even though each individual reference was enjoyable to watch. What do you think of all the references? Does anyone else feel like they over did it?

 

 
Way too many. They made the grand mistake of breaking down the 4th wall. They saw fan reactions online (of varying degrees) and in public & 'played up' to them to the point that it influenced the writing.
One or two references perhaps, but this first episode was full of it and it DID ridicule the fanbase.
Now I have not read all the comments here since my return as yet but have as always kept up with things online and the camps seem to be split on this. All I will say is it is hard to know the sea is moving if you are in the boat.

We had to wait till halfway through this episode for anything that looked like a plot because of the fan waving being done. It was tiresome and several times I had the urge to turn it off & take a break from it. Now I adored S1 & S2 so that for me was a huge shock. The show became a comedy rather than a drama.
I also looked at this show from the perspective of a 'newcomer'. They won't get a lot of references (unless they are from the canon) and so some of what they see will be 'stupid' to put it bluntly. It may come as a shock to some, but many people do NOT follow Sherlock online, have never heard of Sherlockology or have any tweets or tumblr posts regarding Sherlock on their feed. Some countries have no other 'contact' with the show other than when the series is broadcast. So to be sitting there watching 3 different adaptations of what happened in the previous episode actually feels like a waste of time; to see some bearded weirdo ramble on & host some fanfic group (quite a few people don't know what a fanfic is) really does limit the possible growth of the fanbase for this show.
It's become self indulgent, nepotistic and has moved away from the original concept that Moftiss had in mind.

The references took away from any chance a plot had to develop properly, which if we were to use previous writings as a yardstick, was a shame really. So much potential was lost on this ego-trip episode.

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

I didn't feel laughed at in the slightest and I didn't feel that it was making fun of the fans. I kind of like the way the makers of the show have such a close relationship with the fandom and that we almost feed off each other.

To me, as you know I am NOT fond of fanfics & a lot of the shipping stuff people do about anything online (not just this show).
Breaking down that 4th wall made me feel like these guys were amateurs at film making, getting all excited that their show has this kind of following (when, if they looked around, it's happening with a lot of shows these days) And they did, in my opinion satirise the average fanfic/fangirl we see splashing their posts all over the web. They have a fanfic group all wearing the 'ear flap hat'; how many of you all went to meets etc wearing those or big flowing coats etc etc looking totally unlike your usual self? As I said in another post, it is sometimes harder to know the boat is moving when you are sitting in it. 

However, I did feel that this particular episode might be quite difficult to watch and confusing for someone who has never seen Sherlock before. It might actually put them off, which would be a shame.

This will certainly happen. I adored S1 & S2 but nearly turned this one off before we ever got to a plot! This show is dangerously close to being categorised as a 'cult show'. And for mainstream viewing that isn't a good thing.
I know this series will struggle even more than S1 &2 did here in Australia. I think it peaked at #4 on the relevant airing nights here, and we don't have many more free to air channels than that here, lol.