BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Happy Returns Clue- SPOILER THREAD

sirlockofthesher · December 24, 2013 5:23 pm

Did anyone else notice the mold mask of Sherlock in the box? Clue to explain why the kidnapped girl was so scared perhaps?

This was at Lestrade's office-so it's feasible that the assassin/kidnapper used it...

sj4iy · December 24, 2013 6:03 pm

I saw the mask, but I didn't recognize it as Sherlock's face.

SusiGo · December 24, 2013 9:07 pm

I noticed it but was not sure about the meaning. Might be an explanation. And the pink phone was in there, too.

silverblaze · December 24, 2013 10:33 pm

Oh, I bet the box is speculation-bait! Or a nice box-shaped red herring. Maybe Sherlock worked out why the girl screamed and the mask is a remnant of that case.
BTW, if you think the mask is weird, what about the train?

sj4iy · December 25, 2013 12:11 am

Here's what I'm thinking:

The Germans don't do jury trials...and the foreman even states that it was done under 'unusual circumstances'. We then see Sherlock sway the jury and the story reported in Charles Augustus Magnussen's newspaper.

What if:

CAM has influenced the judges in the case and Sherlock finds this out- therfore he pulls some strings and has a jury appointed so that he can serve on it in order to sway the jury to convict the man? I think this is a pretty big clue.

sirlockofthesher · December 25, 2013 5:03 am

^smart and feasible...

Silverblaze-the Train? IDK..what would that mean? I have read some stories about Sherlock Holmes solving some train mysteries but I didn't think they were written by ACD.

December 25, 2013 2:50 pm

The Mysterious Juror: Mr Gatiss kindly pointed out that he knew about the German law system.
It's another kind of jury then.

silverblaze · December 26, 2013 12:09 pm

I am just loving the fact that we are already abbreviating villains we haven't even seen yet. I didn't know CAM had a newspaper, is that even true? I do love a proper Murdoch type supervillain, bring it on!

Someone else at the forum pointed out that the mask in the box was a reference to the story 'The Yellow Face', so it probably doesn't have any other meaning. The train... in the Valley of Fear, the hero and villain meet in a train, Holmes and Watson take trains occasionally, there's a train scene in the Final Problem, could be a reference to that too. Can't think of any other examples now.

The jury: I'm still going with my 'Moftiss screwed up and discovered it too late' theory, sure they worked it out before the episode aired, it's not exactly a secret. I adore them but they do make mistakes (they never seem to google medical procedures either). I think it's just a reference to the Empty House, just like the Tibetan monistery.

On reflection I actually think that none of them are clues, just really cool references.

kete · December 26, 2013 12:17 pm

silverblaze wrote:
I am just loving the fact that we are already abbreviating villains we haven't even seen yet. I didn't know CAM had a newspaper, is that even true? I do love a proper Murdoch type supervillain, bring it on!

The jury: I'm still going with my 'Moftiss screwed up and discovered it too late' theory, sure they worked it out before the episode aired, it's not exactly a secret. I adore them but they do make mistakes (they never seem to google medical procedures either). I think it's just a reference to the Empty House, just like the Tibetan monistery.

On reflection I actually think that none of them are clues, just really cool references.

Yes, CAM is purportedly a media tycoon. And I also think that they just play fast'n loose with actual facts, but I don't care. The whole show plays in a kind of heightened reality and several things that happened would simply not be possible IRL. Also agree that the short was just a fun teaser, meant to wet our appetite (and a christmas gift) and doesn't contain clues to anything that will happen in the real show.

sirlockofthesher · December 26, 2013 3:59 pm

^ there are definite references to what will happen in the show..look at the German juror or items in the box again...

kete · December 26, 2013 4:17 pm

But references are not clues. There were nods to things in the ur-canon and the show-canon, but I don't see clues.

sj4iy · December 26, 2013 4:30 pm

silverblaze wrote:
I am just loving the fact that we are already abbreviating villains we haven't even seen yet. I didn't know CAM had a newspaper, is that even true? I do love a proper Murdoch type supervillain, bring it on!

Someone else at the forum pointed out that the mask in the box was a reference to the story 'The Yellow Face', so it probably doesn't have any other meaning. The train... in the Valley of Fear, the hero and villain meet in a train, Holmes and Watson take trains occasionally, there's a train scene in the Final Problem, could be a reference to that too. Can't think of any other examples now.

The jury: I'm still going with my 'Moftiss screwed up and discovered it too late' theory, sure they worked it out before the episode aired, it's not exactly a secret. I adore them but they do make mistakes (they never seem to google medical procedures either). I think it's just a reference to the Empty House, just like the Tibetan monistery.

On reflection I actually think that none of them are clues, just really cool references.

Trains and the London Underground will be a very big part of "The Empty Hearse"...Gatiss even said so. No, the jury trial may not end up being a 'clue', but it's not a coincidence that the newspaper was featured in the minisode. And Moffat has never been afraid of using minisodes to relay important information.

Last edited by sj4iy (December 26, 2013 4:33 pm)

Sherlock Holmes · December 26, 2013 5:23 pm

I thought the mask was a reference to the Yellow Face.

December 26, 2013 6:03 pm

I assume it is not a long shot to assume that Sherlock can add some additional information to his essay about suppressed hatred in close proximity after coming back.

Schmiezi · December 26, 2013 6:25 pm

... not sure about the "suppressed" part ... ;-)

Last edited by Schmiezi (December 26, 2013 6:25 pm)

December 26, 2013 6:29 pm

The jury scene looks a bit like a reference to 12 Angry Men . I am curious how Sherlock managed to convince them. In 12 Angry Man it was quite a difficult problem with a lot of social interaction, behavioural roles and group dynamics to stand against 11 jurors.

Nice Christmas gift.

December 26, 2013 6:48 pm

~~I’d like to mention some points about the visuals and how Sherlock is portrayed now. I want to compare two scenes:

One being an abbot, hooded, Zen-like hidden in the dark. Candlelight . No face, just black shadow and hands. Small gestures of greeting and compassion and just two words: Tashi delek which means greetings and a happy new year. Looks like a genuinely caring person. Maybe even a display of humility? The scene is dark and the main character appears strong and static. He knows exactly what he’s doing and why.

The other side is Sherlock in full daylight on display, bright and dazzled by light. Face almost white. Sherlock is exposed. Talking fast and questioning himself, unsure why to do what. Sherlock gestures a lot and looks dynamic in his movements. Fake smile and wink to be humanized. Tells John that this is done on purpose to make an appearance, which means without really meaning it.

We practically get to see two sides of him. Like two sides of a coin or two extreme ways of looking at one character. Yin and Yang?

December 27, 2013 10:04 am

Many Happy Returns IMO foreshadows the next series in a way. It is a clue in itself and full of layers. Not quite sure whether to use the microscope or the telescope.
Wonderful.

Mr Cumberbatch's performance being himself and acting self-conscious while acting in character. Never ever seen anything like that. He said he had a thing.
And because he is Sherlock he is going to be thorough and learn about that thing and there he is.

silverblaze · December 27, 2013 12:07 pm

Be wrote:
We practically get to see two sides of him. Like two sides of a coin or two extreme ways of looking at one character. Yin and Yang?

Wow, I missed that, nice catch. Moftiss surely can write.

Moffat seems to have a thing for contrasts. There's a moment in ASIB where Mycroft says 'caring is not an advantage' while we see him more caring than ever before, and the moment in ASIP where Sherlock claims to be a sociopath while his reasoning involved more empathy than Anderson's. He's a really clever writer, methinks.

Back to the wild theories, under the hypothesis that the sequence contains references to the episodes, there's the CAM paper referring to HLV there's the train referring to TEH, leaves the mask for TSoT. Maybe Sherlock goes to the wedding undercover?

sirlockofthesher · December 28, 2013 3:05 am

Mr Cumberbatch's performance being himself and acting self-conscious while acting in character. Never ever seen anything like that. He said he had a thing.
And because he is Sherlock he is going to be thorough and learn about that thing and there he is.
[/quote wrote:

Can you ellaborate on what you mean by this please?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sherlock Holmes, "Perfectly sound analysis but I was hoping you'd go deeper."

silverblaze wrote:

silverblaze wrote:

Be wrote:

Mr Cumberbatch's performance being himself and acting self-conscious while acting in character. Never ever seen anything like that. He said he had a thing.And because he is Sherlock he is going to be thorough and learn about that thing and there he is.[/quote wrote:

Mr Cumberbatch's performance being himself and acting self-conscious while acting in character. Never ever seen anything like that. He said he had a thing.
And because he is Sherlock he is going to be thorough and learn about that thing and there he is.
[/quote wrote: