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September 16, 2013 7:07 pm  #1


Moriarty's Thank You on the roof

Haven't found this topic in the search, though I'm sure it must be somewhere already?... sorry.

I rewatched The Blind Banker yesterday, and it was the first time I paid proper attention to the "screen dialogue" at the very end of the episode between M and General Shan:

M: Gratitude is meaningless. It is only the expectation of further favours.

I've always assumed that Moriarty wouldn't care about thank you's, so it never bothered me. But yesterday I've been thinking about Reichenbach: Moriarty says Thank you, even "bless you" to Sherlock on the roof? What does the "thank you" might be worth then, what's the meaning? Moriarty's thank you on the roof has felt genuine to me -- so far. Now I am not so sure anymore what it might mean. If gratitude is meaningless, then why say thank you? Is Sherlock simply the first person who deserves his thanks?

Can someone enlighten me? ;o)


_____________________________________________________________

"It is what it is."

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September 16, 2013 10:27 pm  #2


Re: Moriarty's Thank You on the roof

Mmh, interesting... I've never thought about it so far because I always thought Moriarty was so fixated on Sherlock that everything concerned with Sherlock would be more worthy to him than from anybody else because normal people are so boring, so predictable to Moriarty that he simply does not care at all about them. Maybe Sherlock really is the only person who is worth a 'thank you' from him. Or he just made up his mind (because he's sooooo changeable)?


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"Love something, and love it deeply."
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September 18, 2013 12:09 pm  #3


Re: Moriarty's Thank You on the roof

Swanpride wrote:

Gratitute is meaningless if you get it for doing a favour to someone. Sherlock doesn't want to do him a favour.

I think the two situations described are very different ones. General Shan was someone Moriarty was basically done with when they had their last exchange, by then he had already made up his mind to rid himself of her, so nothing she said/wrote did matter to him any more.
His "thank you" to Sherlock Holmes on the roof top was genuine, I think. He had had quite a splendid time with him after all, at least in Moriarty's rather odd and crazed mind. He had enjoyed his game with Sherlock and the distraction it created from the general feeling of boredom he seems to have suffered from.


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"When you walk with Sherlock Holmes, you see the battlefield" M.H.

"My brother has the brain of scientist or a philosopher, and yet he elects to be a detective...what might we deduce about his heart?" M.H.

"Home is now behind you, the world is ahead."
 
 

September 18, 2013 12:26 pm  #4


Re: Moriarty's Thank You on the roof

I think Moriarty was thanking Sherlock because Sherlock had finally "proven" that he was Moriarty's equal (although we don't know how, yet).  Moriarty just wanted an adversary worthy of his intellect and attention, and Sherlock had given him that by proving (somehow) that he could beat him.


__________________________________________________________________Bigby: Will you shut up?
Colin: Well, maybe if my throat wasn’t so parched, I wouldn’t have to keep talking.
Bigby: Wait, that doesn’t make se-
Coline: Just give me a drink, please.
 

November 13, 2013 5:28 pm  #5


Re: Moriarty's Thank You on the roof

Only now getting back to this... thank you for your thoughts

Don't think Moriarty was really suicidal at the pool scene - he didn't HAVE to answer that phone, he chose to. It could have ended there if he had let it happen. But at this point, Moriarty is still intrigued by the game.

Moriarty declares Sherlock his equal in the rooftop scene - even more: Sherlock isn't like him but is him. (I get headaches from this choice of wording...) But for Sherlock, Moriarty is his adversary. Moriarty focuses on what they have in common. Sherlock focuses on the differences.

Even if Sherlock chose the other side, chose to share the angels side, he isn't one of them - and neither is Moriarty. But there is the difference between what you are and what you chose. It makes Sherlock a person John puts up with. John would argue that Sherlock was nothing like Moriarty. Because he can see that Sherlock makes different choices. But Moriarty can see that Sherlock could have been him, and is him, in a way - prepared to do anything. I think Sherlock is aware that Moriarty has a true point there.

On the rooftop, Moriarty isn't so keen on keeping their game going anymore as he was back at the pool. He could have called back the killers, could have continued with Sherlock... like he did at the pool scene. But he doesn't this time. He again chooses what to do - and this time he chose to die. Sherlock told John that Moriarty is in prison because he chose to be there - and dying is also Moriartys choice. Somehow the "you are me" gives him enough reassurance to die.

So I do think Moriarty was looking for an equal not an adversary. And I don't think he thanks Sherlock because Sherlock has proven he can beat him. But more because he isn't better in fact, I think Moriarty thanks Sherlock exactly for being "him", not being more but also not being less. Quite a compliment - or insult, depending on the view.


_____________________________________________________________

"It is what it is."

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     Thread Starter
 

November 13, 2013 6:35 pm  #6


Re: Moriarty's Thank You on the roof

Whisky wrote:

Only now getting back to this... thank you for your thoughts

Don't think Moriarty was really suicidal at the pool scene - he didn't HAVE to answer that phone, he chose to. It could have ended there if he had let it happen. But at this point, Moriarty is still intrigued by the game.

Moriarty declares Sherlock his equal in the rooftop scene - even more: Sherlock isn't like him but is him. (I get headaches from this choice of wording...) But for Sherlock, Moriarty is his adversary. Moriarty focuses on what they have in common. Sherlock focuses on the differences.

Even if Sherlock chose the other side, chose to share the angels side, he isn't one of them - and neither is Moriarty. But there is the difference between what you are and what you chose. It makes Sherlock a person John puts up with. John would argue that Sherlock was nothing like Moriarty. Because he can see that Sherlock makes different choices. But Moriarty can see that Sherlock could have been him, and is him, in a way - prepared to do anything. I think Sherlock is aware that Moriarty has a true point there.

On the rooftop, Moriarty isn't so keen on keeping their game going anymore as he was back at the pool. He could have called back the killers, could have continued with Sherlock... like he did at the pool scene. But he doesn't this time. He again chooses what to do - and this time he chose to die. Sherlock told John that Moriarty is in prison because he chose to be there - and dying is also Moriartys choice. Somehow the "you are me" gives him enough reassurance to die.

So I do think Moriarty was looking for an equal not an adversary. And I don't think he thanks Sherlock because Sherlock has proven he can beat him. But more because he isn't better in fact, I think Moriarty thanks Sherlock exactly for being "him", not being more but also not being less. Quite a compliment - or insult, depending on the view.

Remember that earlier in the scene Sherlock is holding Moriarty over the ledge and says, with some surprise--or at least dawning realization--"You're insane."  To which Moriarty replies, "You're just getting that now?!"  Now Sherlock is not a normal person and even calls himself a sociopath, so for Sherlock to call another person insane means waaaaay out of bounds.  

So who knows what exactly Moriarty sees in Sherlock, but it is not necessarily rational or even sensical.  Maybe Moriarty sees Sherlock as a fellow god, as another person who has transcended normality.  That would fit with the "Thank you" and "Bless you."  

Do not gaze long into the abyss....
 


.................................................................
M: Tradition, John. Our traditions define us.

Harry: ...And Mr. Holmes, the younger.  You look taller in your photographs.
SH: I take the precaution of a good coat and a short friend.
 

November 18, 2013 8:33 pm  #7


Re: Moriarty's Thank You on the roof

I think Moriarty made his own version of suicide bomber with a twist.  http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png


Manipulate Sherlock into faking his death.  Force it with 3 guns/3 friends. Try to check mate Sherlock with his suicide with no way to stop the shooters now. Take out Sherlock while taking himself out. End Problem

Last edited by sirlockofthesher (November 18, 2013 8:37 pm)


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