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August 24, 2016 6:06 am  #41


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

RavenMorganLeigh wrote:

besleybean wrote:

I actually think a lot of people are turned off Sherlock because it is just too clever.
In my experience, most of the population watch absolute trash and like everything very simplistic.
Even my own parents(who are 2 of the smartest cookies I know) said they just couldn't get TAB at all and admitted it was because it was far too clever for them.

Actually-- there are all these unresolved plot points and such... that might have something to do with it. 

I agree. And it remains to be seen how clever Mofftiss and their show really are. If they continue with stacking unresolved plot point upon unresolved plot point... well. It's all well and good to make things a bit more complicated than in your average tv show, but in the end you really have to deliver. Or it's not that clever after all.

Schmiezi, I think TAB was comparably easy to understand because if you're taking just this one episode as one episode (which I assume a huge part of the casual audience has done), you have a beginning and an end and you have definite clues within the episode that something is really off. So even if some people still didn't get it or didn't like it, in my opinion it's far more easy to understand the use of MP within this one episode than throughout some part of HLV, TAB and then (presumably) parts of S4.
 


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August 24, 2016 6:10 am  #42


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

I agree with you, mainly because I think the MP is explicit.


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August 24, 2016 6:17 am  #43


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

besleybean wrote:

@ Raven I'm sure that wouldn't have bothered them in the slightest, if they had decided to go down that route.
But they seem to have made it pretty clear that is not the way they are going.

Susi: so the whole EMP is showing Mummy to be the real Moriarty?

Not necessarily. But I wonder that no one is talking about that waterfall quote. The only other explanation that comes to mind would be a meta-quote alluding to Canon. Which would tie in with fat Mycroft but I think many people agree that the talk about his life expectancy might be foreshadowing as well. And is supported by Sherlock's remarks about Mycroft's diets, the treadmill training (and maybe also his tooth problems in TGG). 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

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August 24, 2016 6:18 am  #44


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

Yes, they do seem to feed us with a lot of information on that one...wonder why.


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August 24, 2016 6:18 am  #45


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

SusiGo wrote:

besleybean wrote:

@ Raven I'm sure that wouldn't have bothered them in the slightest, if they had decided to go down that route.
But they seem to have made it pretty clear that is not the way they are going.

Susi: so the whole EMP is showing Mummy to be the real Moriarty?

Not necessarily. But I wonder that no one is talking about that waterfall quote. The only other explanation that comes to mind would be a meta-quote alluding to Canon. Which would tie in with fat Mycroft but I think many people agree that the talk about his life expectancy might be foreshadowing as well. And is supported by Sherlock's remarks about Mycroft's diets, the treadmill training (and maybe also his tooth problems in TGG). 

LIKE. 

 

August 24, 2016 6:21 am  #46


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

I don't like the thought of losing Mycroft.


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August 24, 2016 7:04 am  #47


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

Possible, but the waterfall and the maths professor in TAB could also just be a reference to canon.  They quite often include details from ACD but change the context. 

We did talk about how Sherrinford was Mrs Holmes' maiden name (according to Baring-Gould), though, so there's that.
 

 

August 24, 2016 10:01 am  #48


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

SusiGo wrote:

Let me come back to Mummy Holmes for a moment because this is very odd:

- She is a mathematician. 
- She has written a book about a subject belonging to physics. 
- The title of the book is an allusion to Canon where Moriarty published a book called "The Dynamics of an Asteroid". 
- We are shown that the book deals with medical instead of physical subjects. 
- In TAB we get Mycroft saying that Sherlock pushed a maths professor over a waterfall. 
- Which is strange because we had no waterfall in the show and the only mathematician so far is Mummy Holmes. 


 

"The Dynamics of an Asteroid", I didn't know about that, thanks. Very interesting. And this whle subject is still odd^^
 


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August 24, 2016 11:58 am  #49


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

Another very odd thing is the picture of Sherlock jumping from St Barts on his mothers dresser.

As regards the Tab pushing a maths professor off a waterfall quote I always thought the implication was about Sherlock upsetting his mother so many times and beyond reason. being on Sherlocks mind and his guilt over it.

Consider Sherlock has faked his death and how difficult his parents would have found that - dealing with friends and family and neighbours sympathies etc. Then he was out of touch and off on a very secret dangerous mission for 18 months. Then he was shot and almost died and hospitalised for a long time.
Then he organised the family Cristmas celebration at which he drugged them all so he could go off to a confrontation that resulted in Sherlock killing a man and being exiled to a likely death as an alternative to prison.
One can then assume Sherlocks parents have been - pushed off a metaphoric emotional waterfall - quite easily.

Last edited by Mothonthemantel (August 24, 2016 11:59 am)


"Man may not be degraded  to being a machine by being denied to be a ghost in the machine."
It's just transport. The virus in the hard drive . However impossible .Must be the truth.
 

August 24, 2016 2:54 pm  #50


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

Mothonthemantel wrote:

Another very odd thing is the picture of Sherlock jumping from St Barts on his mothers dresser.

As regards the Tab pushing a maths professor off a waterfall quote I always thought the implication was about Sherlock upsetting his mother so many times and beyond reason. being on Sherlocks mind and his guilt over it.

That is an interesting take on it. He has reasons to feel guilty, true. And his parents appear to be very loving, that probably makes for feeling even more guilty.


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August 25, 2016 12:32 am  #51


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

Something I noticed in HLV is Magnussen entering his mind palace several times by traveling  down Appledore stairs , but we as an audience don't actually know that he is in a mind palace . In the opening sequence and in later sequences Magnussen goes down the stairs into the room with odd things and files and browses. We only know that is a mind palace when Sherlock tells us at the end.If that ending is real .HLV does swap between Mps of both Sherlock and Magnussen without notice many times.

The more I look at the Christmas scenes though the more unreal they seem in every area.


"Man may not be degraded  to being a machine by being denied to be a ghost in the machine."
It's just transport. The virus in the hard drive . However impossible .Must be the truth.
 

August 25, 2016 6:09 am  #52


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

I feel that way about Xmas in general!  Ha. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png

I don't know: Xmas, bit of a TV trope for big family reunions...


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August 25, 2016 6:29 am  #53


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

Also the series tends to be aired around Christmas time. 

 

August 25, 2016 7:37 am  #54


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

Mothonthemantel wrote:

Something I noticed in HLV is Magnussen entering his mind palace several times by traveling down Appledore stairs , but we as an audience don't actually know that he is in a mind palace . In the opening sequence and in later sequences Magnussen goes down the stairs into the room with odd things and files and browses. We only know that is a mind palace when Sherlock tells us at the end.If that ending is real .HLV does swap between Mps of both Sherlock and Magnussen without notice many times.

The more I look at the Christmas scenes though the more unreal they seem in every area.

I agree. And you know what is interesting? If you look very closely, they sort of gave away the fact that Magnussen has a MP at the beginning of HLV. Why? 

There is the hearing with Lady Smallwood. We see the clothes they are wearing. We see Magnussen driving to Appledore, a house in the country, far from London, going into his vaults and searching for information. Next we see him in the library with Lady Smallwood, both wearing the same clothes as before, the circumstances pointing to the fact that this is immediately after the hearing. So when did he go to Appledore to search for the information on Lord Smallwood? Of course he did not. He only had to go into his mind. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

August 25, 2016 10:17 am  #55


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

Yes, and the car driving through the gates towards Appledore in this scene has the registration number "I CAM" http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/lol.png

Last edited by Rache (August 25, 2016 10:18 am)


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August 25, 2016 3:18 pm  #56


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

SusiGo wrote:

Mothonthemantel wrote:

Something I noticed in HLV is Magnussen entering his mind palace several times by traveling down Appledore stairs , but we as an audience don't actually know that he is in a mind palace . In the opening sequence and in later sequences Magnussen goes down the stairs into the room with odd things and files and browses. We only know that is a mind palace when Sherlock tells us at the end.If that ending is real .HLV does swap between Mps of both Sherlock and Magnussen without notice many times.

The more I look at the Christmas scenes though the more unreal they seem in every area.

I agree. And you know what is interesting? If you look very closely, they sort of gave away the fact that Magnussen has a MP at the beginning of HLV. Why? 

There is the hearing with Lady Smallwood. We see the clothes they are wearing. We see Magnussen driving to Appledore, a house in the country, far from London, going into his vaults and searching for information. Next we see him in the library with Lady Smallwood, both wearing the same clothes as before, the circumstances pointing to the fact that this is immediately after the hearing. So when did he go to Appledore to search for the information on Lord Smallwood? Of course he did not. He only had to go into his mind. 

I really missed that at first.

Using the mp without warning is kind of unfair - but gives the writers endless possibilities.


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August 25, 2016 3:29 pm  #57


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

Indeed. And as I said before, since the laptop scene I would put nothing past them. But there is even earlier evidence. Have you looked at the scene in ASiB when Sherlock is talking about Mr Carter, the client? In the background you can see John on the sofa although he is definitely not in the flat. I think this is the first time that something which only exists in Sherlock's mind is not explicitly shown as such. 

Next we get the laptops and another Mind John. 

As for Magnussen: in TEH and HLV they made us believe that Magnussen had a physical archive, they even showed us the statues and dolls and all the other stuff in there. Then came the rug pull, for us as for Sherlock. I do not mind such tricks, quite the contrary, but this is why we should never say, no, they are not going to do this, people would feel betrayed. 
 

Last edited by SusiGo (August 25, 2016 3:29 pm)


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

August 25, 2016 3:32 pm  #58


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

Absolutely right. And I never noticed mp John in ASiP. O.o


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I still believe that love conquers all!

http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q666/Schmiezi/f78f2088-06ef-444c-b254-d9efa841bc19_zps435390b3.png      http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q666/Schmiezi/140545df-e987-4a67-9272-fa8b2742790c_zpsa8b00ed8.png

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

August 25, 2016 3:39 pm  #59


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

Neither did I. I get the impression that the writers have been slowly preparing the audience for these things, TAB being the biggest rug pull so far. But then people knew at least that something was off with TAB because it was Victorian. So there was a fair warning. With EMP of course it would be different. Not sure if they will go in that direction but it would be an even bigger rug pull to find that modern scenes you believed to be real only happened in Sherlock's mind. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

August 25, 2016 4:39 pm  #60


Re: The Extended Mind Palace/Dream Theory (contains spoilers)

Yes, I have mixed feelings about this whole thing.


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