True about Mycroft.  I suppose a few minutes ago, it was possible that he was going to lose his brother for ever.   And then five minutes ago, he was going to get him back after all.  And then he gets him back only to find he's taken a dangerous overdose - no wonder he has a different level of concern from usual!

But yes, I was going round in circles a bit with Sherlock adopting the persona John gives him, because of course that's the ACD persona from The Strand stories, and that doesn't exist in Sherlock's universe - John didn't write that!  Sherlock obviously feels that Victorian Watson would.    But of course, Victorian Watson is in his imagination, and this is the persona he's taken on himself, rather than having been given by John.   We see it in episode one, before John has written anything about him - he's calling himself a high-functioning sociopath.  Yes, he's an unreliable narrator right from the beginning.  The calculating machine might be what he aspires to be, but he knows it's not what he is, and apparently John knows too, or so Sherlock thinks.

 

I don't think John would love Sherlock the way he does if he really believed he was a machine.  I don't think he does believe it.   Look how worried he is about Sherlock during ASIB when he thinks he's fallen for Irene, and how he can't bring himself to tell him she's dead.   Even when Sherlock does the fake engagement thing with Janine, John is shocked - even after knowing Sherlock so well, he's still surprised when he appears to lack human feeling sometimes.   So I think he does see through him ... although not completely.  I think Sherlock is still a bit of an enigma to him.  But not an unfeeling enigma.

I feel that even in the ACD stories, the way Watson writes those lines, it sounds as if Holmes is trying to make himself like that rather than naturally feeling like that.  The fact that it's an issue for him makes me think that he has to suppress the feelings rather than just not having them (and he disapproves of this aspect of himself).  And Watson knows it. 

I posted this quote in the debate thread, but I thought it might be nice here, for different reasons!  It's Stephen Moffat's response to the question of whether Moriarty or John needs Sherlock more:

Oh, John needs Sherlock more. I don’t think Moriarty needs anyone really. He enjoyed Sherlock as a distraction from the sheer tedium and insanity of his existence, whereas John and Sherlock have a very warm, very sincere friendship that is – certainly initially – mutually redemptive. I think they’re both saved now, in a way, so they know they don’t have to redeem each other all the time, but they are just very, very, very good friends. [It’s] relatively rare to portray your central relationship in a show as a friendship, so that’s quite special, I think.
(from Arianne de Vere).

I really like the comment about their relationship being mutually redemptive.

I really like that comment, too.  Let's hope the the two of them, Sherlock and John, can keep it that way, and not lose sight of it.

I'm curious to see where it will go.  Mycroft seems to have put John in a caretaking role ... again.

I don't think they could stop caring for each other, but I certainly hope that they don't forget this: "they don’t have to redeem each other all the time"

That would be very sad, I think, if one of them forgot this.

Last edited by Yitzock (January 20, 2016 12:20 am)

Tough love.

I don't read the debate thread anymore, so thanks for posting this here.

That quote made me feel all warm inside.

I have to bump this thread up again, after ... that hug in TLD!  What a moment!  The whole episode was centred around John and Sherlock reconciling, and this was just a lovely conclusion.  And John urging Sherlock to pursue (romantic) love, just as he did in Sherlock's mind in TAB. 

Yes, I loved that in the end John is frustrated that Sherlock won't give into his romantic feelings about a live person, but also urges him to follow those feelings.  It reminds me of the comments from the HLV commentary about John just wanting to Sherlock to have a girlfriend and be happy.  And of course, although Sherlock was dismissive of John's girlfriends normally, he did his best to protect Mary and keep her and John together too.  He wanted him to be happy too. 

I think their at a place now where they can go into TFP as a team, hopefully. 

I would still like John to do something wonderful for Sherlock, though.  I know he saved him TLD, but only just, and without much risk to himself.  I just feel the balance isn't even at the moment.   But maybe it doesn't need to be.