No I mean why not just have them live sepataetley from the start?
Ok, so ACD needed his characters house sharing, so they could go on their adventures together.
Do we think he just marreid watson off for propriety's sake?  Or may he just fell in love.
I suppose it's more unrequited love with Irene.
 

I'm not sure about their relationship. Martin Freeman himself described it as the 'gayest story in the history of television'. I guess when it was written it was more sociably acceptable for men to have many male friends, and now people just assume it's gay. I think the show is explain their complex relationship, but people nowadays are more aware of sexuality, so instantly assume things are either gay or heterosexual. 
 

I wonder why so many people refer to interviews and statements outside the show when it comes to this. So far the show consists of 2x3 episodes, plus the pilot. There are several people involved in creating it, who all have their own interpretations and opinions, which might be quite different from one person to the next. For the viewer it should be possible to interpret what is shown without asking the writers, actors or anybody else for their opinions. And of course people can come to different conclusions when interpreting what they see. It's certainly an interesting discussion and funny to see how different people's perceptions can be, but it should not be about who is right and who is wrong.

Ha well this comes down to arguments about creativity, about ownership of a show which is itself a fanfic as much as anything else. It also assumes that the writers necessarily know this stuff in advance-anyone who has written a story knows that sometimes your characters do surprising things. Writers aren't machines, things come out of their heads that they didn't know was there and that they don't notice is there til someone else joins the dots for them. Writing is partly letting your subconscious speak. 

This question of creative ownership, of whether the collective understanding of the fans or the intention of the writers is more important, and whether there is even one single truth when it comes to interpreting a work of fiction-well if there were easy answers to that then Eng Lit degrees would not exist. Its a pretty debated topic throughout all academia dealing with literature that exists to some degree as a mythology, so everything that ordinary people interact with and form their own understandings and dialogue of.

At the end of the day, on one level it is a tv show. And its probably best to remember that. Its just a bit (a lot) of fun. But its also, for me, very, very interesting to look at how these writers have interpreted this work of literature that I love-how they have reinterpreted Sherlock Holmes for the present day, what they have decided to keep and what falls away and what they see as the essence of the stories. At the end of the day, to me, fanfic, including the Sherlock show, is one of many dissertations on the original writings. Some people interact with the work by producing their own literature, others by producing monologues. Its all really interesting. But I don't think any of them have a monopoly on the truth of it. At the end of the day even the interviews with the writers and actors come down to their interpretation of what they think they have done. (sorry this is a bit philosophical late at night! avoiding work here!)

But I do absolutely maintain that what the writers are doing in a lot of cases is putting the debate on the table. What they are putting up for our consumption is not easy answers but the debate itself. 

Last edited by beekeeper (April 1, 2013 8:43 pm)

Very well said, beekeeper. From my own experience I know that people sometimes interpret or perceive things I have written or characters I have created in quite a different way. It is a strange feeling when a work of fiction gets a life of his own but there you are. The moment you make it available to the public, be it as a film or novel, it becomes independent of you. And of course that happens with Sherlock as well. And in this case a lot more people and their individual views and interpretations are involved than in writing a novel which usually is done by one person alone. 
 

And BBC Sherlock has taken people back to The Canon, which is what Mark and Steven really wanted.

kittykat wrote:

Just found this...take note of the last point on the page

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/HoYay/Sherlock

Haha! Awesome, just...awesome 

Amen to that!

SilverMoonDragonB wrote:

ancientsgate wrote:

Those who believe there is a Sherlock/John relationship (or even a possibilty of one someday) will never be able to see anything else-- thsoe two were made for each other. Once a Johnlocker, you are marked as one for life.

OTOH, those who believe there is no Sherlock/John relationship (or even a possibility of one someday) will never be able to see that anything could ever be any different than what we're shown in BBC canon-- what you see is what you get, and if we aren't shown them hugging and kissing, then there can be no hugging and kissing, there never will be, and as far as those fans are concerned, there never should be.

I call it wearing my slash glasses. Mine have been welded to my face for more years than I'd care to say. So when I see those two hot men exhibiting the kind of chemistry their actors have given them, there's only one conclusion I can come to: Johnlock forever.

 

Heh, you have just earned yourself an epic post medal! 
 

I will wear it proudly.
It's easy to pontificate about His Fineness and His Other Fineness, especially when they're busy being Their Fineness.
 

Last edited by ancientsgate (June 23, 2013 2:59 am)

besleybean wrote:

....But metaphorically speaking, I would be prepared to bet my life on our seeing John married in Season 3

I avoid spoilers like the plague, but I agree with you. 100%. And if that (the marriage) does happen, I can't wait to see how the writers and actors handle it. Endlessly fascinating. But then, I think they're all endlessly fascinating, and I'm always interested in the characterizations of both Sherlock and John.

I don't generally read fanfic, tho beta for 1 writer. I have no problem with Slash fic in general and certainly have no objection to the Johnlock stuff

I think reading Johnlock fic feeds the slash beast. heh The more one reads of it, the more and more the whole thing seems plausible, especially in the hands of mature, skilled writers. In its own way, fan fic, whether gen or slash, is as creative and soul-satisfying as the BBC canon on which it's based, for those who enjoy it. But what I mean is, once someone becomes interested in the intellectual idea of Johnlock, reading some good fan fic will only support the idea of it. And then it can become like a cycle wherein the more you read, the more convinced you get, so the more you read, etc. It's much like being a space explorer-- life on Mother Earth was wonderful and complete, but oh, look at the wonders to behold out here in these new places!

But don't expext to see any of it replicated in BBC Sherlock.

Nope. Me either. And you know what, I really don't want to see it. Given the choice of whether or not to see it, I would vote no, mostly because I'd be afraid I wouldn't like how it was handled and that would ruin the fantasy for me.

We are not in Victorian Britain. We live in the 21st century, technological and celebrity age

As well as in an age in which people feel more free to engage in sexual expression that was not spoken of, much less indulged in, in polite society back in ACD's day. There were gay folks back then, but they had to stay well-closeted. I imagine there were lots of people, especially a majority of women, who went to their graves in those days never even realizing that there was such a thing as a gay relationship of any kind.

.....Do not confuse your canon, with that of Gatiss/Moffat.

Fan fic canon is actually called fanon. Maybe little kids (teens) who are into fanon get them confused, but most of us are fully aware of what is what and who is who and how the two will not meet. And that's okay. We are all free to indulge in fanon or not, and I celebrate that fact-- that's what makes the world go 'round, that we can dive into fanon and eat it up, or abstain. Freedom of choice. And I don't think the vast majority of us are confused about anything.