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The Empty Hearse » Reunion - do you think... » January 27, 2014 5:13 pm

The restaurant scene could have started like this:

Sherlock: (takes off glasses): I'm not dead. (sits) Let's have dinner.

(Well, they're already in a restaurant after all. But maybe it's just as well they didn't do that. Enough of that  line, maybe?)

The Sign of Three » Did anybody count the 3's in the Sign of Three?? » January 27, 2014 5:09 pm

Up until Sherlock's  language ("I'll be there for all three of you") gave away Mary's pregnancy, and therefore, three people BESIDES Sherlock, I thought the references to "three" meant Sherlock, John and Mary.

The Sign of Three » Why did Sherlock leave the wedding early, looking so sad and dejected? » January 27, 2014 5:03 pm

tobeornot221b wrote:

Wholocked wrote:

I also think his line "You won't need me around anymore now that you have a real baby on the way" is indicative of his feelings just then. John has just married and has a baby on the way.

So he left. 

And then the episode is called "The Sign of Three", not "The Sign of Four", after all...

Honestly, up until his reference to "the three of you," gave away that (he thought) Mary was pregnant, I really thought his references to "three" referred to them being a team of three now: him, John, and Mary. I love the idea that his speech(es) carried the subtext of being married to them both.

@Swanpride - what did you mean by "partnerlook"? Are you referring to them drunk together on the stairs of Baker Street?

If before I had seen this episode, I heard that he ends up leaving the wedding early, I would have thought, "Well, of course, Sherlock Holmes doesn't like social situations." 

But watching him in this episode I almost believed he was having a good time...after all, he was in a role where he did get to show off! I think his anti-socialness is changing a little bit, so by the end of this episode I wasn't so sure that was the right explanation anymore. I would actually kind of have thought he would want to stick around as long as possible because he'd be nearer John, even if John couldn't devote the whole evening to him.
 

The Sign of Three » CAM's wedding message to Mary » January 27, 2014 4:50 pm

Clueing_for _looks wrote:

CAM = Charles Augustus Magnussen.
I am really worried!!!

Haven't seen HLV yet, but somehow I feel CERTAIN that's who it was...possibly a hint of blackmail to come if he knows something about her past.

The Sign of Three » Johnlock » January 27, 2014 4:48 pm

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

Yeah, lots of great Johnlock moments in this episode...I think you guys have pretty much covered all of them actually.

Oh, and the bit at the end where they were like "we can't all dance together" and John and Mary go off to dance on their own. Haha. I felt like Sherlock really became aware of his isolation at that moment. It was pretty sad. I kind of want him to find someone. His character development has come on so much that he's almost ready for a relationship of sorts.

I didin't catch what Sherlock said when John and Mary went off dance, but it sounded suspiciously like something about having taught John to dance.

Series Three Reviews » Review of S3 on Decoding the Subtext Blog (Blog focused on Johnlock) » January 27, 2014 4:45 pm

I didn't read her review of TSoT until after I saw the episode...and then I couldn't believe she didn't squee more over the MANY ways John and Sherlock showed in that episode how much they loved each other...not to mention waking up on top of each other on the stairs.

The Sign of Three » Irene's cameo » January 27, 2014 5:19 am

shezza wrote:

Well, supposedly, Benedict said they did have dinner after he saved her in Karachi 

I remember a Sherlock/Irene shipper posting that they wished this had happened...but what is your source for Benedict saying it?

The Sign of Three » Johnlock » January 27, 2014 5:16 am

In canon, after Watson meets Mary there are quite a few things Holmes does that are kind of "wooing,"  showing special concern for his health (the state of his injury), SERENADING WATSON TO SLEEP WITH THE VIOLIN, and bragging, "You have never recognized what a good housekeeper I am."

He does have nice things to say about Mary, though. He tells Watson he's against his getting married because he's against all emotion...but we can read between the lines.

The Sign of Three » Irene's cameo » January 27, 2014 5:10 am

There was an implication that she's still capable of distracting him....plus, I'm seeing certain similarities between her and Janine.

The Sign of Three » Why did Sherlock leave the wedding early, looking so sad and dejected? » January 27, 2014 5:05 am

Swanpride wrote:

But this were not the flowers of the bride...well...perhaps it was, in a way.

Seriously this whole thing looks like a threesome wedding, and not just because John and Sherlock turned up in partnerlook. First Mary, John and Sherlock are greeting the guests, with the bridesmaids behind them, then Sherlock and John tell each other how much they are in love, then Sherlock makes a lifetime vow and then he throws "his" boquet.

Oh, brilliant. And by the way, there is some fanfic (generally based in canon, at least, what I've read is) where Mary is...shall we say...a very willing accomplice and participant in "Johnlock."  I could totally see this Mary doing that.

But the ending sort of subverted all that, with a suggestion that Sherlock was really pretty heartbroken. (Incidentally, in canon, Watson announces that Mary has accepted his proposal...and Sherlock reaches for his cocaine. Strong suggestion of heartbreak.)

By "partnerlook," I assume you're referring to the scene where they're drunk and sort of on top of each other.

The Sign of Three » John and Sherlock Drunk » January 27, 2014 5:01 am

SolarSystem wrote:

I especially love the fact that even when Sherlock is drunk, he still is a show-off.
Sherlock: "I have an international reputation. Do you have an international reputation?"
John: "No, I don't have an international reputation."
Sherlock: "No."

And then of course: "Aaahhh, Hudders."

Not to mention...a pretty Johnlock-y scene...didn't they wake up on the stairs or floor together?

I thought about the addiction thing, and miriel, I am not a fan of bachelor parties either. But I loved everything that the bachelor party scenes implied about their relationship.

Did you notice that it was mostly just John and Sherlock? (No strippers, thank God! One advantage of having someone like Sherlock as best man.) But it was as if to John really had no other male friends to share that with. Seems to have been used as a special friendship moment between the two of them. 

But then, I missed that John tricked Sherlock into getting more drunk. That's that side of John I don't care for.

The Sign of Three » Favourite quotes » January 27, 2014 4:55 am

Janine says something about handcuffs, and Sherlock says, "Down girl."

She flirted with Sherlock Holmes, and not just at him, because he responded.

Could she remind him of Irene? There were certain similarities, it seemed...

Also, wasn't there something where Sherlock was listing bad experiences John had had, and then he said, "Sorry about that last one," (a reference to his faked death?)

What did Sherlock say as John and Mary went to dance? Did he say he had taught John to dance?
 

General Sherlock Discussion » The Ambiguously-Explained Faked Suicide...part of a trend? » January 27, 2014 1:52 am

lil wrote:

TRF a solution was always meant to be a joke.There never was going to be a solid solution.

The writers know nothing is new, all stories are based on very few themes in the end. At heart Sherlock is a morality tale and a romantic tale.
All good writers know this and often make jokes on older original versions of the theme/tale.
This is why in Animal Farm the pig is named Napoleon , funny because its a political tale/theme.

The writers in Sherlock know a morality tale is about good V evil/bad.
They make jokes with Moriarty all the way from the start based on the Original Bad Guy.
A few Examples...theme tune sinnerman..the fall(of man)the apple..the side of the angels..the virgin (innocent)....getting burnt....and so many more.
The final problem in good v bad is as Moriarty says. One can't exist without the other.
Moriarty s solution is to force Sherlock to become a bad guy too.
(Via doing a bad thing before dieing.Suicide)
This is all jokes/the writers having fun comparing Moriarty to the original morality tale and the Original Bad Guy.In the Original morality tale.
Have you guessed who?

Who does that make sherlock? The anti Moriarty (heh another joke there)
Sherlock maybe a bit like the Original good guy?
Jokes/the writers having fun with sherlock..healing the sick, unexplained magic tricks..people following him...people turning on him..dieing to save people...rising from the dead.....

You get the joke yet?
The fall solution always was meant to be an unexplained magic trick..its a joke on the underlying theme.

Thats why the solutions given are also jokes..but they also have a ....well if you didn't get the joke ....here is perfectly plausable solution version....if you want it.
While at the same time maintaining the jokes/fun with the theme.

If something seems odd on the surface, compare it to the underlying theme...
In scandal...wasn't Irene a kinda fallen woman..?
And at the end wasn't she still worth saving.....?
Oh hahahhaha...maybe another joke

The Empty Hearse » Reunion - do you think... » January 26, 2014 9:49 pm

tobeornot221b wrote:

SherlocklivesinOH wrote:

Wasn't it after the whole bonfire thing that he shaved off the moustache and went back to Sherlock?
 

No, he shaved it off before the bonfire. He was just on his way to 221b when he was abducted.

And he shaved because Sherlock didn't like the mustache...or, did it take Sherlock's pointing it out to make him realize Mary didn't actually like it?

The Empty Hearse » Reunion - do you think... » January 26, 2014 9:14 pm

ancientgate wrote:

e'd forgiven him after he smashed Sherlock in the nose and then heard Mary tell him in the back of the cab that she liked Sherlock. Next morning, he shaved his moustache. That's so like John--  okay, this is the new reality, now let's get on with it.  By the time the bomb thing happened, the forgiveness had already taken place in John's heart, but Sherlock just wanted him to say it, and being the bumbling relationship idiot that he is, he turned to trickery and his own kind of warped humor. John's used to telling Sherlock off-- infuriating, maddening bastard! But they both know that nothing can separate a magnet from the north pole, not for long.

Wasn't it after the whole bonfire thing that he shaved off the moustache and went back to Sherlock?
 

It's Canon » Who is your favourite canon character? » January 26, 2014 8:16 pm

Jacco111 wrote:

Jefferson Hope is a great character indeed. His personality a contrast with Holmes' cool, calculating personality but deep down they share the same sense of justice.

And he's very respectful of Holmes' abilities even though Holmes used those abilities to thwart him.

I actually like the canon's Irene Adler...I was glad to see in our Book Club thread about SCAN, other poster's here realized that she was wronged by the King, not the other way around. I like to think Holmes realized that, too. I posted a LOT in that thread.

@ The Doctor  - what's the Criterion? I agree, it's funny we never saw Stamford again.

I liked Godfrey and James of Blanched Solider. Two guys who are very attached to each other, who, at least one of their families seems to be trying to keep apart. Holmes helps one find the other. He works the case alone and admits to missing Watson. You can bet he identified with his clients' relationship! I confess, if Moffit and Gattis were to use that story, I would love for them to have Godfrey and James as actually a couple, facing disapproval of their relationship from family.

And I also like Stanley Hopkins, a "rising star" of Scotland Yard, who, unlike some of the official force, admires Holmes and lets it show. He's assumed by many slash-minded readers to have "a thing" for Holmes. Sometimes Watson is shown to be jealous; sometimes he likes the idea that other men want what he has.

Interestingly, Holmes is far more complimentary of HIS abilities than Holmes is toward most of the Yard...but ultimately, I think Hopkins ends up needing Holmes' help as much as the rest.

The Empty Hearse » Reunion - do you think... » January 26, 2014 8:08 pm

I don't think this is going to happen, (at least not in Season 3) but these writers are perfectly capable of revealing to us later that the whole restaurant thing was staged on both sides...because in fact John knew all along.

@besleybean, as for Sherlock telling "only those he needed to make his plan work," on re-watching the ending part I was struck by how many people that really was, and was struck by the impression that (pardon the expression) it could hardly have killed Sherlock to tell one more person. I mean, there was a risk that one of those people would be co-opted by Moriarty or just spill the beans, and Sherlock TOOK that risk.

The scene, on watching the second time, really made me feel like John was the real intended audience, the one they were staging it for.

The Empty Hearse » Second, Third, Fourth, Etc. Reactions » January 26, 2014 8:03 pm

On re-watching the ending scene with the conversation with Anderson and the third theory, I was struck by the SHEER NUMBER of people who were in cahoots with Sherlock, namely EVERYONE who was ANYWHERE in the vicinity at the time, EXCEPT John.

Now, his reasons for not telling John everything he's planning do make some sense: villians WILL get to Sherlock Holmes by using / kidnapping / trying to hurt "his Watson." It has happened in every Holmes-verse.

And in other verses where he has concealed his schemes from Watson, his excuse is usually, "You're such an honest, decent person. You couldn't manage to be devious enough to deceive these villains."

But I'm not sure I believe that about this John (Freeman.)

And, after realizing how many people were in it, I kind of felt like, "How could having all those people in on it NOT be dangerous? How did you know Moriarty wouldn't buy off / blackmail / otherwise get to one of them?"

And, "If you felt safe to let all those people in on it, would it have killed you, Sherlock (pardon the expression) to let in one MORE person, namely, the person who really CARED about you?"

It felt like John was the intended audience, the one intended to be deceived.

Now, the writers of this show are perfectly capable of revealing later that either

Moriarty did know the whole time

at least one of those in on the planned leaked it to someone

or even

John knew all along and staged the scene in the restaurant, either for reasons of his own or per someone's instructions (probably Mycroft.)

It's Canon » "Stormy Petrels"...a canon reference? » January 26, 2014 4:47 am

The Sherlock Holmes society closest to where I live is called the "Stormy Petrels." I'm embarrassed to say I don't remember how that's a Sherlock Holmes reference.

The way I learned that the group existed was kind of funny: a theater in town shows classic movies every so often, and they were showing the Hound of the Baskervilles starring Basil Rathbone. On the way inside, I thought I was seeing people wearing deerstalkers and trenchcoats.

Then, before the film started, a theater employee made announcements and asked, "Do we have any Stormy Petrels here tonight?" And applause broke out, acknowledging that they were.

Other Adaptations » What was your introduction to Sherlock Holmes? » January 26, 2014 4:41 am

How did you first "discover" Sherlock Holmes and through what adaptation? Did you read canon first? See the series from the 1980s, starring Jeremy Brett? Was there, perhaps, one short story from canon in one of your literature textbooks in school?

Did the interpretation of Holmes you first saw color your feelings about the BBC series? It did for me.

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