the picture:
It's not balance of probability, it's our expectations.

Yes but my friend does. Just a different interpretation.
@nakahara

nakahara wrote:

Vhanja wrote:

Let's turn the challenge around, then:

Can anyone give me an example of a scene between Sherlock and John that excludes platonic friendship?

This scene:



John Watson in the nude, as the object of admiration. Definitely nothing platonic in that. 

 
post #5121

Why is a bum turned towards a camera proof for romantic love??

I agree with Vhanja. It's for fun. I'm sitting here with two friends and one says she sees nothing, and the other one talks about archetypical bums... but I think the main thing is, we don't see erotical potential because we don't think that way. (concerning Johnlock. we agree benedict looks nice here)

I just want to drop the line, I just spoke with a friend who doesn't see romance. She isn't that heavily involved in fandom, but she is a big fan. She said she sees the friendship as in platonic, strong love, but not romance. She says it's because Sherlock is not experienced in romance so he is just learning emotions with John as the first person who gets really close to him. About the vetruvian man, she says the picture shows the anatomy of mankind and now he uses John as the first human he gets really close to as represntantive/stand-in because he knows no-one else that well.
John is the first one to whom he really opens himself, and the first he really gets along with. So it is affectionate but not romantic.
Of course it's speculation, she agrees, because we don't know a thing! :-)

I'm just saying (as myself now ;-) ) that there are indeed people who watch this show who don't immediatly jump to a romantic conclusion or interpretation. We discuss right now how we see things we want to see. I'm sure some people are even picking up on "romantic" tropes which the writers didn't even put there consciously.
We had the example of a poem interpretation, where the interpretation doesn't necessarily fits the intention of the author but still text evidence for our own interpretation can be found.

I find Ho Yays analysis very plausible. That's not it.
But if you don't pick up on the romantic coding, it's still possible to see it different.
Which makes agree to disagree the only option, really.
I can see the romance has evidence, e.g. Ho Yays arguments are strong imo.
But for pure interpretation it's different - e.g. some see the scene at Angelo's s highly suggestive
and loaded, and I don't. But interpretations aren't analysis.
Sadly I don't find as much meta on friendship evidence, because,
as you said, the majority johnlocks the hell out of things.

I'm glad you mention the unresolved sexual tension as problematic.
If it's a romance, this is what really bugs me - how things are proceeding.
I feel that in many series, the romantic couple is obvious early on. Still
they spend time on anything else so the romance doesn't proceed too quickly.
I personally just don't think it makes a good romance that way.

And Moftiss have confessed they focus on the detective not the cases.
I really liked TAB, okay make that LOVED it, but the case is once more just
means to an end, and yet the romance you mention doesn't proceed - or,
yes, it does, in tiny tiny tiny steps... I'm honestly curious: are you satisfied the
way it is?

edited: so basically what tonnaree just said ;-) minus the understanding, on my part

@Liberty: I agree with you, and thank you for the Outlander example. I also think they still develop despite the established relationship.

I think you simply know more than me then. As I said, I haven't got a clue who is lgbt here. So I'm just saying, not all lgbt people might be Johnlockers. But, apparently, here on the board that's true, but I didn't know about it. I'm not so sure about Johnlock, so yes, hello, I do feel excluded by your assumption. But as I'm not a die-hard convinced frienship defender, I might not count anyway.

Back to topic then?

LittleWeed wrote:

But the narrative is reading generally queer ...

 
But is it? Not for everyone, apparently.

I can happily agree on the life raft though :-)
And wouldn't mind a tea, either... ;-)

Mothonthemantel wrote:

and will let John help him , instead of the old alone is what I have protects me mantra.

 
Why didn't that occur to me? It's so obvious. Makes the Reichenbach scene really beautiful, with that quote in mind.

just confirming: he did look damn good without curls ;-)