sherlocked wrote:

Oh, I think, Mary did much more than working for the government with a licence to kill. CAM, said, she was freelancing and 'wicked'... and I believe him, strange as that sounds. If she was just a CIA agent with a licence to kill, she wouldn't have to fear to lose John's love, and it wouldn't be exactly grade A blackmailing material...

And there would be the question how tolerating you are. Once you start killing people for money, I assume your general ethic is beclouded. Funny though, when watching films like James Bond or Jason Bourne you never question their judgement when killing another person. 

anjaH_alias wrote:

Hanka wrote:

miriel68, you're not really contradicting me here. I'm okay with people murdering others on TV, it happens, it should be shown on TV/in literature. I am just very unhappy with the way it is dealt with: not at all. Sherlock kills somebody, then there's about a minute of people being shocked, and then, surprise, three minutes later, Sherlock just comes back to solve yet another crime. Mycroft is over it. John is over it. Nobody even implies that this is wrong, a murderer not facing justice because he is oh so intelligent and needed (why? He just 'solved' a problem in the worst possible way). The characters are joking again already, and apparently ready to go 'back to business'.

I actually don´t get what you feel here, but I can tell you what I feel since Sunday: I feel a huge cramp around and in my breast whenever I am thinking about that scene. It´s so dark, really dark. I see that child crying, which brought himself into that hopeless dead end situation. I understand it and I see and feel how it suffers, how everybody around him is suffering. The jokes I hear are bitter gallows humour, grim, not funny at all. Sardonic. I am really touched and feel sad.
I can´t understand what you read in that scene, I don´t see what you see. It´s one of the most striking, impressing, tragic and thinkworthy scenes which I saw since ages. It makes me think about that matter, I am asking myself questions - what if or if not? -, and this is much more moving and deep as any of that morally clotted, political correct blab of so many other films I saw. I really salute to Stephen Moffat here - what he made is courageous and profound.
And so I can´t understand how anybody can watch this with his/her everyday point of view, doesn´t see the beauty of that scene and is resistant to that tragedy. Is it self protection or am I too romantic?

Same here.

Harriet wrote:

The difference between Mary and Magnussen is that Mary is being loved.
She doesn't deserve protection but is gifted with it.
By John's and Sherlock's decision.

Matter of perspective. Mary being loved is understandable in my opinion since she wasn't the one blackmailing in the first place...and well, soon-to-be mother....

Willow wrote:

Tetrisash wrote:

Sherlock told him to. "Did you bring your gun as I suggested?" "Why would I bring my gun to your parents' house for Christmas dinner?" "Is it in your coat?" "Yes."

Of course, Sherlock may have requested it should Mary decide to take out the entire Holmes Family and leg it; with one decent gun in the house she might reconsider...
 

Yeah, of course. She was all about to do that.

@Hanka: You said that the show did not deal with it at all. I feel very different. Suddenly Sherlock was presented in another light and everyone's reaction clearly shows that it was wrong. Because Mycroft is Sherlock's brother and the whole matter is not meant for the trial Sherlock did not go to prison but on a suicide mission. Bad enough. Yeah he came back - the protection of a whole country is more important than a single murder obviously.

I don't think the question is whether CAM deserved it or not. Sherlock made a vow to protect Mary and John and as long as CAM was still alive they were in danger. So CAM had to die. Who could possibly blame Sherlock? Sherlock himself says that he's not a hero and what he did wasn't quite heroic in the eyes of many but he made a great sacrifice. Isn't someone who makes a sacrifice somewhat heroic? 

I would feel betrayed. My guess is that this was just a teaser. To wind the fandom up and to introduce a new villain... one who pretends Moriarty is still alive to draw Sherlock's attention and to keep him in London.

I was comparing them in terms of not being a hero. Not being white characters.
I was not saying that it is the same to kill a person because the situation asks for it and to kill people because it's your job - it's not.