kgreen20 wrote:

But who would pay the nanny?  John can't afford to; he's not rich.
 

You know Mrs."I'm-Not-Your-Housekeeper" Hudson?  Well, she would be Mrs."Not-Your-Nanny" Hudson as well, I think. A widower with a small child, he'd have to find child care somewhere, for sure.  Maybe not a nanny, but 24 hour daycare or something.  Alas, I doubt we'll  ever see any of that on the show, even if there's another season. Motiss is too busy writing fantasy-horror to ever go there.
 

ewige wrote:

About it [221b] not being suitable - people make do! My place hadn't been good for children from the very first day but we got there eventually. Besides, they have a live-in babysitter. That's more than most working parents can say.

But surely you don't have people using a drone to deliver a hand grenade. Or bad guys coming in to take a loved one hostage, tie them up and point guns at them in the living room. Or refrigerated heads on a platter in the ice box. Or various fungi bubbling away on the stove. 221b is REALLY not good for most anyone, especially kids.

 

gently69 wrote:

Discussions only between fans who have the same opinion? That isn't an exchange of pros and cons then... which is the meaning of a discussion for me. 

Yes.
 

SolarSystem wrote:

I am aware that this is a fan forum, and believe me: I am a fan of this show just like everybody else. I am not writing nasty messages to anyone. Just like a lot of other fans who are disappointed, I am writing here about my disappointment because I have been writing on this forum for over three years now. Because I love the show. And because that makes it even harder to admit to myself that S4 didn't really work for me, TLD being the huge exception. Yes, believe it or not, I think TLD was great. But for me TFP wasn't. So am I only allowed to talk about TLD on this forum now?
Seriously. this has nothing to do with loyalty. Loyalty for loyalty's sake is a bit ridiculous, if you ask me.And it has nothing to do with my expectations or what I wanted the writers to give to me. I has to do with what I see when I watch the episodes. Pure and simple.
And if people on tumblr are behaving nasty, then go to tumblr and tell them and don't bring this over here to this forum. I have only read opinions here, no nasty comments. 

Hear hear!!  Well said. Thanks, Solar.
 

nakahara wrote:

Now that we know John was sending text to Eurus, I´m really wondering - where did she sent those text from? From the institution in Sherrinford? From some other place?

Oh, god bless you that you're trying to make sense out of the nonsense we were fed in this final episode. It all makes my head hurt.
 

Whisky wrote:

For me it is the end. I am not sure it is THE end though.

Yeah, it's the end for me, too.  I FF'd over most of the last half of this final episode tonight, what a terrible drag. I didn't care if any of them lived or died. John threatening to shoot that guy, and them spending well over a half hour with that draggy nutso sister and dead Moriarty doing weird stuff, all of that, it was just too much. My husband tried to watch with me, but he got up and left the room while I used the FF button and just watched like the last five minutes.

But yeah, no cliffhanger, and the video stuff with Mary at the end, it sure sounded like that was it. Maybe they'll make specials again sometime.
 

Vhanja wrote:

     and that is why I keep saying that people shouldn't take this show too seriously. It's TV drama. It's just the same as showing the only physical and mental consequence of Sherlock's torture in Serbia is a two-seconds wince when he's at the barber. It's just as unrealistic. But I don't dwell on it - it's TV. It shouldn't be taken as if what happens there is the same as if it had happened in real life.

Oh, honey, we all know it's just a TV show.  Speaking only for myself, I'm not stupid, so I know it's not real life, there is no one like Sherlock in the world and never has been. But...  they took these beloved characters and stuck them in modern-day London, stuck them in 221b like real people with a real Mrs. Hudson, made them dress like real people, use hair product like real people, gave John a real job like a real person, I mean, aren't we supposed to believe that they COULD be real people? The fine art of storytelling would say so, unless something is labeled as fantasy or sci-fi, which this isn't.

My fandom friends tell me that I suck at hand-waving, and I admit it, I do. Seeing characters I care about not act (and react) like real people drives me crazy.  Which is why I think that after this Sunday, I'll be done with this show. Too bad, a sad way for me to end with it. We'll see, but whatever the writers do with the next ep, they better make it good (and believable) or I'm outta there.
 

Vhanja wrote:

........So it seems that John wasn't really ok with it, he just kept it in. Until something so traumatic happened that he finally allowed himself to let it all out. Unfortunately, by then the emotions and the trauma was so extreme that the outlet became venomous and violent. 

Prisons are full of such people. In real life, that's where John would be. In the US, Sherlock wouldn't even have to press charges in an attack like that, the police would have grounds to arrest John for what he did.  All of this "I forgive you, you cock of an arsehole" is one thing, but they could talk about it over a speaker phone through some plate glass at the local jail.
 

Vhanja wrote:

I would say they are quite bully, the both of them, if you want to use that term. Mental and emotional manipulation can be just as damaging and hurtful as physical violence.

Knocking a man down and then viciously kicking him, and when you're supposed to be his best and maybe only friend in the world, is both mental and physical violence.
 

nakahara wrote:

Well, when I compare both scenes, I still can´t see how Sherlock´s behaviour was worse than John´s.

First the motivations: Sherlock "selfishly" wanted reconciliation.
I simply can´t see how reconciling with Sherlock hurt John. John seemed none the worse for wear after reconciling. Actually, I think, it´s what he secretly wished for too. I don´t think holding a grudge for much longer would benefit him.
On the other hand, John needed to beat Sherlock in the morgue to reach "catharsis".
In my opinion, catharsis like this would only benefit John and so, according to same logic we applied to Sherlock earlier, this was a "selfish" act too.
After John´s "catharsis", Sherlock ended as the bloody heap on the floor and needed a medical help right away. That all after being in a weakened state already.
In short, "selfishly forcing somebody to forgive" is not as severe in my book as "beating somebody to a pulp so that you can feel better about your miserable life".

That leads me to...

Physical and mental repercussions of both action:
While being subjected to that horrible "mental violence", John was healthy and in the clear state of mind. The "mental violence" lead to exactly 1:30 minute of acute mental anguish, replaced by healthy laughter and amusement.
No hospital was needed, no physical harm came to John, the mental anguish was all but forgotten.
The bomb was disfunctional (thanks to Sherlock´s action), so no actual threat of death was there for John.
Also, Sherlock was not the one who installed the bomb there, so he was not the main factor in endangering John´s life with it earlier.
While being subjected to vicious beating from John´s side, Sherlock was already weakened and his mental state during the scene was nearing hysteria.
Above, you forgave John´s behaviour, because he was acting "in a stress, full of emotions". Sherlock´s mental state during the morgue scene was much, much worse... doesn´t that count too?
After being ma

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