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March 27, 2013 9:24 am  #1


Right so the truck theory...

(which is my favourite for simplicity)

still seems to me to have two enormous flaws

First off, we see a body landing. We see Sherlock (or someone alive who looks quite amazingly like him) falling from the roof and directly after we see a body fall.

All objects fall at the same speed, so its not really feasible that someone else pushed another body off the roof, and I think the body falls too fast to have fallen from the truck and too far from Barts and too straight for Molly to have thrown it out of the morgue window or anything.

Second, ok even if there was a soft landing, a rubbish truck literally full of pillows and suchlike, I make it, based on how tall the building seems to be (did work experience at Barts years ago-it is quite tall) and also how long he seems to fall for that his speed on impact would be something like 70mph. Now that is pretty fast. If you were driving a car at 70mph and it crashed at 70mph (as opposed to you braking) then you would, I think, be fairly screwed regardless of whether you'd crashed into a soft wall or not. You probably would not be in a state to play dead at that point.

The only possibility I can think of is that Sherlock actually took some kind of muscle relaxant directly prior to the fall. This would make him less likely to have been injured and would be seeming to be dead anyway. But a. he is awake and conscious when he falls (flailing limbs-thats a live person) and b. this would have to have been planted earlier somehow and I can't think of where it would have been.

So I dunno, are they going to cartoon physics us here maybe? 

Last edited by beekeeper (March 27, 2013 10:17 am)


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Sherlock Holmes "The question is, has she been working on something deadlier than a rabbit?"
John Watson : "To be fair, that is quite a wide field"

The Hounds of Baskerville
 

March 27, 2013 9:38 am  #2


Re: Right so the truck theory...

ok more geekery here now from me. If I get a chance I'll come back and check this with an actual calculator. I'm terrible for converting badly feet to mph and metres and so on-using mixed measurement systems (owing to my age!) so I might have made a mistake in there.

I've happened upon an interview which said that the distance fallen was actually around 70 feet, less than I thought, which would make the speed on impact closer to 40 mph-which I understand is probably dead but not so definately and that anything to cushion the impact might actually make a difference.

Ok here is the problem. I've just rewatched the video on youtube and it has him falling for 8 seconds. Which means, unless I've made a big mistake (we're out of coffee-never good!) he hits the ground at around 250 feet per second which is something like 180 miles an hour. I don't think pillows will help him survivie this.

The trouble I'm having -that I've always had - is that I know Barts and it is a really tall building. I mean every Londoner knows Barts, so its not rarified, specialist knowledge or anything. I honestly don't think the screenshots really capture this-yes its three or four stories high but they are high stories. But to be fair I'm looking at another photo now and there's a phone box in it and assuming that a phone box is about 10 ft high that makes the particular part of Barts he jumped from around 70 ft meaning that the impact speed was about 40 mph.

There is an issue with the pavement and the truck too. You don't really get a sense of this I think in the show but actually, its a really wide pavement and I'm not sure how Sherlock could have changed his trajectory midfall anyway. Unless he had a rocket booster or something ;-)

Oh dear. Before I drown in a swamp of geekery (physics and Londonalia!) I think I'd better go and do some work. And it does seem possible to me that when the writing team laid out their clues as to his survival they weren't expecting the audience to call on their gcse physics, awesome as that would be :-)

Last edited by beekeeper (March 27, 2013 10:07 am)


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Sherlock Holmes "The question is, has she been working on something deadlier than a rabbit?"
John Watson : "To be fair, that is quite a wide field"

The Hounds of Baskerville
     Thread Starter
 

March 27, 2013 10:59 am  #3


Re: Right so the truck theory...

I once saw a stuntshow here at the filmfactory in Babelsberg close to Berlin. The stuntmen jump from very high (at least like St. Bart´s) into thick paper boxes. So, it is possible, and this without fainting or getting hurt. I always assumed that Sherlock jumped from the roof into the garbage truck (or into something what comes from the garbage truck). Then he rolled over (or was rolled over) and let himself fall the last meter onto the ground (which explains also the wrong position which is not analogue to his jumping direction). Something like that....
Whether he applied himself the fake blood or somebody else I am not sure. You can also see the fake doctor (I am sure he his!), that one with the longer blonde hair, pressing his body sidewards to the ground - odd! Very likely he is "fixing" somehow the ball under the armpit ("magic trick" of Houdini), so that no pulse of Sherlock is to be felt. John tries to feel his pulse, but very soon his hand is drawn from Sherlock´s arm by a lady (because you can´t obviously stop a pulse for too long).
For me all that makes sense, it´s definitely Sherlock jumping from the roof, so somehow there must have been a break in between. And there is a cut and we don´t know how much time passes. It can´t be too much, of course, but together with the bicycle accident it is surely more time than we are supposed to believe.

Last edited by anjaH_alias (March 27, 2013 11:46 am)

 

March 27, 2013 12:21 pm  #4


Re: Right so the truck theory...

No I don' think there is a cut, there is just an angle change. We change from the fall to a vantage point with the truck taking up most of the right hand side of the frame. 

More than anything, that's what is throwing me. I don't think our eyes leave Sherlock, its just that the angle changes. There isn't really time for him to roll off and onto a truck, even if the truck was actually in his flight path,which it isn't.

Reading the theories I'd assumed there was a cut but I just went back and rewatched (though its a youtube clip, don't think it looks edited though) and there isn't one.

ETA Unless we are looking at some kind of Seussian crane contraption of course and that was no ordinary rubbish truck

Last edited by beekeeper (March 27, 2013 12:24 pm)


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Sherlock Holmes "The question is, has she been working on something deadlier than a rabbit?"
John Watson : "To be fair, that is quite a wide field"

The Hounds of Baskerville
     Thread Starter
 

March 27, 2013 1:16 pm  #5


Re: Right so the truck theory...

Having been to St Barts quite a lot, it's definitely not the tallest building around and you could certainly survive a fall from there. I don't think Sherlock would take that risk though, as you'd definitely be rather badly injured regardless.

My main trouble with the truck theory is the width of the pavement between the hospital and where the truck was situated. He would have had to take a running jump to land in the truck.


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March 27, 2013 1:40 pm  #6


Re: Right so the truck theory...

In my opinion the truck theory is the only logical explanation. We see that the person who jumps is Sherlock. Something must have happend when John couldn't see him (there was that building between the hospital and John). I think the truck would be a perfect solution because it can leave quickly.


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March 27, 2013 3:43 pm  #7


Re: Right so the truck theory...

Just rewatched the clip

See I'm not sure that the truck there when he falls. I don't think we can exactly tell but I'm not sure, just going on the angle of filming, but more importantly, if you watch it closely he falls onto the pavement. He has to, I know that pavement-its really pretty wide. You couldn't fall into the road unless you really launched yourself off the top of the building and Sherlock didn't. Also his trajectory is straight.

Goodness they have given us a lot of fun with this haven't they?

 


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Sherlock Holmes "The question is, has she been working on something deadlier than a rabbit?"
John Watson : "To be fair, that is quite a wide field"

The Hounds of Baskerville
     Thread Starter
 

March 27, 2013 5:06 pm  #8


Re: Right so the truck theory...

beekeeper wrote:

No I don' think there is a cut, there is just an angle change. We change from the fall to a vantage point with the truck taking up most of the right hand side of the frame. 

More than anything, that's what is throwing me. I don't think our eyes leave Sherlock, its just that the angle changes. There isn't really time for him to roll off and onto a truck, even if the truck was actually in his flight path,which it isn't.

Reading the theories I'd assumed there was a cut but I just went back and rewatched (though its a youtube clip, don't think it looks edited though) and there isn't one.

ETA Unless we are looking at some kind of Seussian crane contraption of course and that was no ordinary rubbish truck

 
Of course there is a cut. If not we would see BC landing directly on that huge inflated bag on which the actor landed . There is definetely a cut (which allows us to view on that scene in another angle). A cut means: The fall was not filmed in one shot, there are at least two interuptions to be seen (= cuts).
We are supposed to believe that there is no time passing in between the two shots (like John has to believe, too). But strangewise Sherlock has changed his position in between (he is falling straight forward from the roof, but landing parallel to the building). This is the proof that something happened in between shot two and three (how fast ever, whoever did anything), it´s not only about changing the perspective.

Last edited by anjaH_alias (March 27, 2013 5:09 pm)

 

March 27, 2013 5:13 pm  #9


Re: Right so the truck theory...

Well by "cut" I just meant time loss.Cut time. Sorry if that wasn't clear, I don't know all the jargon I'm afraid.

I agree he could have survived, just, though I still think its too high really. But he'd have been risking serious injuries, internal bleeding, a snapped spine. A lot of people who fall that distance just don't make it. I've know two, sadly. The Sherlock we see doesn't just survive. Also, if he'd fallen that distance my god he'd have needed a neck brace! (tbh even if he fell onto a crash mat...)

I agree it makes no sense how he falls. He turns 90 degrees and ends up horizontal when there is no reason for him not to hit the ground feet first.

Its hard of course to know what is filming and drama and what is put in there as a clue, but my hunch is that they might be playing with our expectations and assumptions a little in this scene. And I'm assuming there are no accidents or filming mistakes, because if there are, it just gets impossible.

The truck thing...the more I think about it the less I like it. He'd have had to have launched himself with force to land in the truck and he just doesn't.

Last edited by beekeeper (March 27, 2013 5:20 pm)


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Sherlock Holmes "The question is, has she been working on something deadlier than a rabbit?"
John Watson : "To be fair, that is quite a wide field"

The Hounds of Baskerville
     Thread Starter
 

March 27, 2013 5:17 pm  #10


Re: Right so the truck theory...

beekeeper wrote:

Well by "cut" I just meant time loss.Cut time. Sorry if that wasn't clear, I don't know all the jargon I'm afraid.

 

I thought so, but wanted to make it sure .
A cut could be just a change of perspective, but here it´s definitely not the only reason. Whatever he or they did in the passing time in between the two cuts - it changed his position and will explain how he survived. Somewhen ....

 

March 28, 2013 12:31 pm  #11


Re: Right so the truck theory...

anjaH_alias wrote:

beekeeper wrote:

Well by "cut" I just meant time loss.Cut time. Sorry if that wasn't clear, I don't know all the jargon I'm afraid.

 

I thought so, but wanted to make it sure .
A cut could be just a change of perspective, but here it´s definitely not the only reason. Whatever he or they did in the passing time in between the two cuts - it changed his position and will explain how he survived. Somewhen ....

I saw a screen shot with John getting hit by a bicyclist in the foreground and something that looks like a blue sheet with the people around Sherlock.  It might just be the blur of the blue scrubs some of them are wearing, but I think the most likely solution is that the homeless network caught him with one of those nets the fire brigade uses for people jumping from a burning building, and then quickly rolled him off to the pavement.

The part where they catch him would be when the angle changes - we see him fall nearly to the ground and then we see him hit the ground.  The last part of the fall would be from the net to the ground.  They could have got rid of a net pretty quickly, much more easily than any mat thick enough to absorb the fall.
 


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March 28, 2013 12:42 pm  #12


Re: Right so the truck theory...

erunyauve wrote:

I saw a screen shot with John getting hit by a bicyclist in the foreground and something that looks like a blue sheet with the people around Sherlock.  It might just be the blur of the blue scrubs some of them are wearing, but I think the most likely solution is that the homeless network caught him with one of those nets the fire brigade uses for people jumping from a burning building, and then quickly rolled him off to the pavement.

The part where they catch him would be when the angle changes - we see him fall nearly to the ground and then we see him hit the ground.  The last part of the fall would be from the net to the ground.  They could have got rid of a net pretty quickly, much more easily than any mat thick enough to absorb the fall.
 

It makes more sense but I can't see that blue thing...


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March 28, 2013 3:47 pm  #13


Re: Right so the truck theory...

I am more comfortable with the idea that a small group of homeless network were coordinated in that chalked out square, caught Sherlock, rolled him to the ground (now sideways), tossed the sheet into the back of the truck, staged Sherlock with blood/ball no pulse, discombobulated John to assist illusion..., than I am with Sherlock trying to jump on the back of that truck, replace his body with a dummy, etc.

It seems most logical to me that they used the sheet method (simplest solution) as they moved about their "magic trick/slight of hand." Occam's Razor. But, that's just me.

Last edited by Cabear5 (March 28, 2013 3:50 pm)

 

March 29, 2013 12:34 pm  #14


Re: Right so the truck theory...

OK I posted this on the other thread but I have a new favourite theory now, and I want to hear whether you think it might fly. Haven't seen this anywhere else so...maybe its a bit far fetched. Ok

Here's it in a nutshell cos below I'm thinking out loud.

Its not the homeless network who saves him but the remaining assasins who are after the keycode. There are two left at this point and it could be either. He has not planned this in advance but is relying on it  in the way that he relies on one of them saving him after he throws himself in front of a truck. I don't know what exactly they do-maybe pushing a laundry cart in his way as this clever person suggests http://finalproblem.tumblr.com/post/16150992025/as-promised-heres-my-current-theory-on-how . Everything else is basically opportunistic-he chooses his place to fall because there is a laundry cart nearby and, logically, some wheeled means of getting the laundry there. As I've said above, his speed is slow enough that if his fall was broken he'd survive. Also, if he'd fallen from even a smallish height odds are that blood might be real. Head wounds bleed stupidly much, any parent knows this.

Still some flaws, not least that why did the doctors move him, especially the one young guy who is shaking his shoulder? You don't shake someone's shoulder when they've fallen 70 ft! The cyclist? I don't know.

Oh and just to ETA too...doesn't the female assain look remarkably like the woman playing who we think is Mary Morsten in the new series? Blond, scraped back hair, similar make up...just saying, yk?

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leaving this in because its a pain when someone etas and deletes a thread in the process :-) 

I wonder if it might be not the homeless network but the assaisns. At the point Sherlock jumps, they don't know he no longer has the keycode. We've already seen that they will go to extreme lengths, even effectively suicide, to stop Sherlock from dying. He's up on the rooftop talking long enough that they could have put someone in place to stop him plunging to his death (what, I don't know. Laundry cart?)-Christ the length of that speech they could probably have gone to the sports shop and bought a landing mat ;-). 


Two big advantages of this. First, the only person who might know that he wasn't dead might be the assain, who would be quite unlikely to spread the word. Second, the assasins are kind of set up earlier in the story and its not that clear why they are there. And Sherlock does do something that might be out of character there-he turns and thanks the assasin for saving him(although to be fair he does the same in the Blind Banker witht eh German tourists which gives him the clue to the A-Z...) 

But also-Sherlock seems genuinely upset and actually afraid jumping off the roof. He seems to be saying goodbye to John. In contrast, he seems more pensive in the graveyard scene. Why? He's not a physically timid man and might well be fine if jumping off the roof if he knew he'd survive. Well if he's pinning his hopes on his calculations about the behaviour of people trying to extract the keycode from him then I can see how he might be a little worried that it might just not come off. I mean he's crying up there-John can't see that so it can't be for his benefit. He's really geniunely afraid he won't see his <insert whatever John is to him as you prefer> again.

The hole in this is how he'd know that the laundry cart would be there and so be able to prevent John from seeing that he didn't die. Maybe,maybe that's just him being lucky, Maybe he chose the exact spot to jump from with the expectation that the truck would stay there long enough. Maybe even the assasin travelled by laundry truck (oh that would be cool)-because another hole is that that laundry truck is weird-who pulls off after they've seen a guy fall 70 feet to land beside them?

ETA no actually he doesn't thank the tourists, he apologises. I am trying to work out if he really actually genuinely thanks anyone else anywhere else. I mean he says it as convention in conversation (he's British. That and "sorry" are what we do.) But genuine "thank you?". Not sure.  Throwing himself in front of a truck also not in character either...

Last edited by beekeeper (March 29, 2013 1:01 pm)


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Sherlock Holmes "The question is, has she been working on something deadlier than a rabbit?"
John Watson : "To be fair, that is quite a wide field"

The Hounds of Baskerville
     Thread Starter
 

March 29, 2013 1:17 pm  #15


Re: Right so the truck theory...

beekeeper wrote:

ETA no actually he doesn't thank the tourists, he apologises. I am trying to work out if he really actually genuinely thanks anyone else anywhere else. I mean he says it as convention in conversation (he's British. That and "sorry" are what we do.) But genuine "thank you?". Not sure.  Throwing himself in front of a truck also not in character either...

He thanks someone on the telephone in TGG and he thanks Molly in TRF,


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March 29, 2013 1:27 pm  #16


Re: Right so the truck theory...

ok yes I take that back re thank you. What is out of character might be more throwing himself in front of a moving truck. 


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Sherlock Holmes "The question is, has she been working on something deadlier than a rabbit?"
John Watson : "To be fair, that is quite a wide field"

The Hounds of Baskerville
     Thread Starter
 

March 29, 2013 4:02 pm  #17


Re: Right so the truck theory...

My two pence is that same as in canon, when Sherlock hits the ground that scene is what John thinks happens. Why else would Sherlock have the boy hit John with his bike but to buy himself more time. John doesn't see Sherlock fall down completely, he see him jump off the building but his view is blocked. Plus John is still woosy when he comes upon Sherlock so there could have been a faint pulse and John would have been so distracted as not to notice it. I think he had this planned since the night before when he asked Molly to help him.  Only after Molly agrees to help did Sherlock text Jim to met him on Bart's roof. Why pick that place? Certainly there are other areas of London more condusive to showdowns. I do believe Molly gave Sherlock blood to use act look like he was injured and that all the medical staff that ran out to help were working for Mycroft. Because I do believe that Mycroft and Sherlock contacted each other during the episode yet chose to act as they were angry at each other. 

In the real world, Molly would probably lose her job for using blood or corpses to help Sherlock. 

 

March 31, 2013 12:00 am  #18


Re: Right so the truck theory...

Someone said that Sherlock was falling for about 8 seconds, I'm pretty sure that's just because BC wasn't actually falling at the speed that you would be falling in real life, and so the fall took longer. I actually came up with the-assassins-who tried-to-save-Sherlock's-life-somehow-saved-him-from-going-splat theory, but I couldn't figure out a way for them to accomplish that. And also, with the ball theory, you have to squeeze your arm in order to not feel your pulse, and Sherlock's arm looks pretty limp when John is checking his pulse. And also, Sherlock couldn't rely on John not being in a state to check his pulse, as (because we've all agreed that Sherlock jumped), there would be adrenaline running through him, and so it would be very easy to feel his pulse if he had one


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March 31, 2013 12:29 am  #19


Re: Right so the truck theory...

sherlockian111 wrote:

And also, with the ball theory, you have to squeeze your arm in order to not feel your pulse, and Sherlock's arm looks pretty limp when John is checking his pulse.

No, watch that scene again: The fake doctor is doing that, he is squeezing Sherlock´s body to the ground, while is he laying there on one of his arms, short before John is checking his pulse!!

Last edited by anjaH_alias (March 31, 2013 12:31 am)

 

March 31, 2013 8:50 am  #20


Re: Right so the truck theory...

Sherlock-I think the assasins operate the same as everyone is saying the homelessness network does, but with the big advantage that they will keep it quiet 

It was me with the 8 (well, 6) seconds thing. My hunch is that its drama, yes, but it might also be a clue. He's falling at something like a third the speed you'd expect from gravity, that's quite a lot slower.

OTOH I've posted already about this, but at least one of the fake doctors is actually wearing the same kind of ring as Mycroft and Anthea. Which suggests to me that they are his people.


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Sherlock Holmes "The question is, has she been working on something deadlier than a rabbit?"
John Watson : "To be fair, that is quite a wide field"

The Hounds of Baskerville
     Thread Starter
 

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