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October 8, 2017 2:35 pm  #41


Re: Why the fear of intelligence?

Vhanja wrote:

To me, it just sounds stressfull to spend time dwelling on such things, not to mention how it must ruin the fun of shows. ...

Well to me it's part of learning, which is the fun part for me! For example, I was surprised to find out that PGPR is actually used in the production of (dubious-quality) chocolate and now I understand why the French small-scale chocolate-makers are proudly sticking "100 % beurre de cacao" on their products.

But let's say, just for argument's sake, that Sherlock takes place on one of Dr. Who's planets (one where the sun at it's highest point is in the east and nobody has discovered the butterfly effect) and it's pure coincidence that there was a first female Prime Minister called Margaret Thatcher. So all the inconsistencies with our world are to be ignored.

I completely agree with SusiGo:

The thing is that the logic within that fictional universe has to work.

Well...  Sherlock claims to need a flatmate to make the rent, has doubts about finding one but moves in nevertheless. Sherlock breaks into Soo Lin's flat just because there's a wet phone book in front of it - he doesn't yet know anything about her involvement in the case. John insists that Sherlock should reduce media exposure which John has created - and is maintaining - with his blog (that was when I began to really dislike him). Greg has known Sherlock for longer than John - has he really never received an "urgent" text from Sherlock or why does he run away  to Baker Street before his career-boosting arrest without even trying to check back?

And in Season 4 things fall apart completely: Mycroft claims to be more intelligent than Sherlock, but suddenly can't count to 5. Why is Mary talking about the things receptionists pick up - there wasn't one in 221B when they discussed the case and Mary's seems to be at home. (Yeah, I know the memory later puts Sherlock on the track of Vivian Norbury - except she is not a receptionist either... And if Mary was referring to herself - she just claimed to be a nurse. Whereas I thought she was member of a private equivalent of SAS...) And what takes the biscuit: The supposedly most observant man on earth (sorry, some other planet) doesn't notice a red balloon floating at eye-level in his living room! And that's only as far as I've got with re-watching season 4 (this time in French) - and I'll probably stop watching TST before Sherlock gets to the aquarium because it's just too painful to see him being literally too stupid to live!

For me the show only works as eyecandy (though it could also be a great lesson in special effects if the bonus materials were more comprehensive). And the only excuses I can find for season 4 is either commercial suicide (how to get rid of one's pesky fans) or a wish to comment on British culture and politics while continuing to work for the BBC...

 

October 8, 2017 2:51 pm  #42


Re: Why the fear of intelligence?

Everyone is entitled to their own views and opinions. I am personally just so tired of reading nothing but complaints and negativity about the show on what is supposed to be a forum for fans. 

I just wish for once I could find a place for fans to actually be fans and where I can share my love for something. But it happens time and time again, not just here. I join a Facebook group for a game series I love, and see nothing but complaints over this and that. I join a forum for a particular game I like and see so much extreme negativity. Not just constructive criticism from someone else who loves it but is critical to X or Y. But just pure negativity over and over again. I am just tired of all of it. Fandoms don't work anymore.

Last edited by Vhanja (October 8, 2017 2:53 pm)


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"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
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Team Hudders!
 
 

October 8, 2017 9:25 pm  #43


Re: Why the fear of intelligence?

You said it so much better than me.
For me it's the sense of entitlement and what some could perceive as arrogance, to suggest a knowing better than the BBC team.
Think fan art/fics/vids can do it better? Fine: look/read and watch them.  But don't confuse them with the TV show.


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October 9, 2017 5:15 pm  #44


Re: Why the fear of intelligence?

Well, we all have to live with our feelings, because I am sad, disappointed and angry that Mofftiss have destroyed two of my childhood heroes (Sherlock and Irene Adler). After first pulling me into the show by making them look not too different from the original ("first" meaning 3 seasons for Sherlock and most of ASiB for Irene). So I love parts of the show, but not all of it.

And I really would like to know why and how people go from "I love the show"/"I am obsessed with the show" to "the show is perfect and its creators can do no wrong". For me that's not an evident or logical conclusion. Could anybody please explain?

I am also still waiting for argumens/reasons why somebody considers the show intelligent... 

 

 

October 9, 2017 5:48 pm  #45


Re: Why the fear of intelligence?

Maybe it's different if you haven't grown up with them as childhood heroes (I didn't).  I feel there are loads and loads of adaptations, and there's room for a new take on it.  I don't know if I'd have been so interested in a straightforward adaptation of the stories (which the Jeremy Brett series does very well).  I think it also might be just a matter of taste.

 

 

October 9, 2017 6:02 pm  #46


Re: Why the fear of intelligence?

Vhanja wrote:

Everyone is entitled to their own views and opinions. I am personally just so tired of reading nothing but complaints and negativity about the show on what is supposed to be a forum for fans. 

I just wish for once I could find a place for fans to actually be fans and where I can share my love for something. But it happens time and time again, not just here. I join a Facebook group for a game series I love, and see nothing but complaints over this and that. I join a forum for a particular game I like and see so much extreme negativity. Not just constructive criticism from someone else who loves it but is critical to X or Y. But just pure negativity over and over again. I am just tired of all of it. Fandoms don't work anymore.

I still love the show. This is why I am here. If I did not, I had run away screaming after TFP aired (as so many fans and critics did, here and elsewhere). But loving something does not mean it is immune to critical questions and interpretations. I do not have to put something on a pedestal and claim it to be perfect in order to appreciate it. And if you look back, you will see that the reactions after S1 and S2 were very different from those after S3 and especially S4. Since I do not believe that the fans have suddenly changed, it might have something to do with the show itself. 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

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October 9, 2017 6:49 pm  #47


Re: Why the fear of intelligence?

I don't know if it's so much that fans have changed, but TV has been changing since 2010.  I've watched more TV since I discovered Sherlock (after S3 aired), and I'm amazed at how good some of it is!  And there is so much more choice, with Netflix, Amazon, etc.   It seems to be much more competitive than it was a few years ago.

 

October 9, 2017 6:55 pm  #48


Re: Why the fear of intelligence?

Liberty wrote:

Maybe it's different if you haven't grown up with them as childhood heroes (I didn't).  I feel there are loads and loads of adaptations, and there's room for a new take on it.  I don't know if I'd have been so interested in a straightforward adaptation of the stories (which the Jeremy Brett series does very well).  I think it also might be just a matter of taste.

 

I don't insist on a straightforward adaptation of the stories. But I think a "new take" on a theme should stay true to some part of the original. I love that the setting has been updated, but with the setting changed, and the crimes changed, and the theme of the show changed ("it's a show about a detective, not a detective show") I feel that the writers should have stayed true to the characters of the protagonists. Because if nothing is left from the original but the names, maybe one should use original names as well... (as in The Name of the Rose and Dr. House, for example)

I don't mind Irene Adler being a dominatrix. I do mind her losing her game because she falls for Sherlock, when the original Irene was the only woman who ever beat Sherlock (not beat up!) and whom he respected because she was as capable as him.

But most of all I mind Sherlock being stupid and a junkie in Season 4 - not only because ACD's Sherlock wasn't either (even if he did get things wrong in The Yellow Face - a lovely little story with a perfect happy end, by the way, which I did not expect after Vivian Norbury...), but simply because I want to watch movies and shows (and read books) about intelligent people, preferably cleverer than me (of the others I see enough in my work). And Sherlock Holmes used to be a guarantee for cleverness.... Used to be being the operative words, sniff...

 

 

October 9, 2017 7:30 pm  #49


Re: Why the fear of intelligence?

Liberty wrote:

I don't know if it's so much that fans have changed, but TV has been changing since 2010.  I've watched more TV since I discovered Sherlock (after S3 aired), and I'm amazed at how good some of it is!  And there is so much more choice, with Netflix, Amazon, etc.   It seems to be much more competitive than it was a few years ago.

I'd say there were some very good series even before 2010: Breaking Bad, Moonlight, Dr. House, The Wire, Sharpe, Space Rangers, Liebling Kreuzberg, Highlander, ALF, Miami Vice (admittedly, way back then I probably wasn't all that critical...) Please note, I'm not saying that the above are of equal quality, just some series I like (at least for the first few seasons - the later ones normally decrease in quality when the writers run out of ideas. Sharpe excepted...)

There have always been good stories on tv. What Sherlock has changed is the look of tv - I don't think a tv show had ever been so visually impressive before. The only one of the above that's in the same format (a few British-produced 90-minute episodes per year) is Sharpe, and there the lack of money is very visible, when battles in the Napoleonic wars are fought with a few handfuls of soldiers... (but the stories, the actors and the music are still good, and young Sean Bean, hmmmm....)

I'll grant Sherlock that it has raised the standard regarding production values, but I'll always take a good story over good special effects!

Last edited by Kittyhawk (October 9, 2017 7:33 pm)

 

October 9, 2017 7:32 pm  #50


Re: Why the fear of intelligence?

Kittyhawk wrote:

And I really would like to know why and how people go from "I love the show"/"I am obsessed with the show" to "the how is perfect and its creators can do no wrong". For me that's not an evident or logical conclusion. Could anybody please explain? 
 

That's easy to explain: No one has ever said such a thing.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
http://i.imgur.com/NzWTIDd.png

Team Hudders!
 
 

October 9, 2017 7:45 pm  #51


Re: Why the fear of intelligence?

SusiGo wrote:

I still love the show. This is why I am here. If I did not, I had run away screaming after TFP aired (as so many fans and critics did, here and elsewhere). But loving something does not mean it is immune to critical questions and interpretations. I do not have to put something on a pedestal and claim it to be perfect in order to appreciate it. And if you look back, you will see that the reactions after S1 and S2 were very different from those after S3 and especially S4. Since I do not believe that the fans have suddenly changed, it might have something to do with the show itself. 

Well, I think I have said several times that the show isn't perfect and even criticized some aspects of the show myself. It's not either/or - either the show is horrible or it's perfect. I just don't understand why someone would bother to spend time on a fan forum/group if they dislike something so much. I have shows/games/movies I dislike, but I don't go on fan sites/groups to rant about them. I just stop watching them and go do something else.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
http://i.imgur.com/NzWTIDd.png

Team Hudders!
 
 

October 9, 2017 7:56 pm  #52


Re: Why the fear of intelligence?

@ Kittyhawk, yes there was some good TV prior to 2010, but there is just so much now.  I seem to remember that back then the big thing then was being able to easily record on boxes from cable/satellite TV, but a lot of the channels weren't that great - reruns and so on.  Whereas now, I have instant access to a huge amount of high quality, high budget, new TV.   It's harder for something to stand out. 

 

October 10, 2017 9:42 am  #53


Re: Why the fear of intelligence?

Without tv since 2009, or internet fast and reliable enough to watch good quality streaming, I'm limited to what the library buys on DVD. So I get only a tiny selection of the supposedly better recent stuff, some of which I don't even like. In 4 years I've only watched approx. 8 tv series to the (temporary) end... (the good thing is I don't have to drag out things with one episode per week....) 


 

 

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